Question about residence calculation |
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HUMDESI
Junior Member Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 118 |
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Posted: 14 May 2010 at 3:34pm |
hey all.. i think i am goin to be eligible for citizenship soon.. but just couple of question are bothering me. first is that what is differece between basic residence and physical presence. I m qualified for basic residence but not for physical residence. and also does visits to US count in this bcoz when you cross the border, neither US or Canadian ppl stamp your passport. thanks in advance.
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blackpearl
Junior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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You should wait until you have enough physical residence to apply for citizenship.
Physical residence means being physically in Canada. Trips to US don't count, unless it is same day trip, e.g. going to US and returning back to Canada on the same day. They may not stamp your passport, but your PR card is swiped, so it will show up when they do background check on you. |
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canvis2006
Moderator Group Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 2574 |
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As per the rules, both physical and basic residence have to be met.
Use the online calculator, and declare all trips out of the country, and it will tell you the date you will be eligible to apply. Failing that if you apply without being qualified, you will: -probably receive the RQ (residency questionaire) which will delay your application -receive a refusal from judge due to not meeting physical residence AFTER the delay -waste 2-3 years of your lifetime WAITING -Receive greater scrutiny the next time you apply (after previous refusal) It is your decision. |
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premaman3
Average Member Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 255 |
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US visits do count as absence, claiming them is up to you ,unless you prefere to take the risk then face the consequences,you may still apply even if you did not complete the physical residency,and your absence is limited to few months.But you should expect an RQ,and meeting with the judge is a must for cases like yours, those two things will delay your application for a year or two in addition to the regular processing time. so waiting a few extra months will be better option.but the answer on your question is yes,you may apply. but prepere to have a solid prove that your ties with Canada are stronger than those outside : JOB, Home ownership,car and insurance ,school reports,health report, even Bank statement......etc
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Somewhat ditto what has been said.
My version: Whatever the terms used, while the statute itself as well as CIC versions of the requirement refer to "residing" or "living" in Canada for at least 1095 days, in practice the key issue is the number of days (within four years) of actual, physical presence in Canada. One can apply with less than 1095 days of actual, physical presence, and indeed should be eligible (though the Federal Courts continue to waffle some about this, even though I am pretty sure CIC policy explicitly recognizes such eligibility) so long as they actually "resided" in Canada for more than 1095 days notwithstanding some absences during that period (such as for holidays, family visits abroad, and such, the shorter the better). HOWEVER given the way the process works, RQ is virtually guaranteed for the latter, and that will entail a much longer processing time line in addition to the burden of the RQ itself, and the Citizenship Judge holds rather wide discretion in such cases. It really behooves you to wait until you have more than 1095 days of actual, physical presence in Canada before applying. Obviously, a person may maintain their residence in Canada even though they take holidays abroad. However, any trip abroad (including into the U.S.) in which you do not return to Canada on the same calendar day (which in practice means all trips abroad except day trips to the U.S.) must be reported and those days do not count toward physical presence. Outside the FAQs for residence calculation, the term "basic residence" does not appear all that often in CIC literature (shows up twice in the operational manual specifically governing the residence calculation for example) or in the Federal Court decisions discussing the three recognized tests for determining whether an applicant has met the "residency" requirement. In the FAQs "basic residence" is mentioned frequently but in some instances inconsistently, though most often used as a synonym for "days of actual, physical presence" in the context of 1095 such days being required (that is, "basic residence" does not includie days absent from Canada -- see A3 in FAQs at http://services3.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq ). The FAQs state:
While that really does not tell anywhere near the whole story, the whole story is very complicated, full of nuance, and, actually, a lot of rather unreasonable uncertainty (given that despite the language of the statute itself, particularly since there was a discussion in Parliament about a proposal to impose a strict actual, physical presence requirement and that was not adopted, the Federal Courts still say that a citizenship judge may strictly apply a 1095 days of actual, physical presence test, and yet CIC decisions and materials suggest they ordinarily do not). Again, best to have 1095 days of actual physical presence before applying. Review the FAQs, which, again, are at: http://services3.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq Note: there are some circumstances in which waiting to meet the requirement based on physical presence will not work for some individuals, and such individuals may very well be wise to apply based on maintaining residency itself rather than meeting the requirement based on actual, physical presence. Such cases, however, are precisely the sort of case that is likely to draw more scrutiny (basically such cases are those in which someone spends so much time abroad, but maintains their residency in Canada, they may never meet the physical presence test or they otherwise qualify now based on residency but qualifying based on physical presence is well into the future . . . and a couple other fairly narrow situations) and thus take quite a long while in process, and include a fairly intense level of scrutiny at the RQ and interview before a Citizenship Judge stage. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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HUMDESI
Junior Member Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 118 |
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so guys lets say i leave canada on 1st of the month and come bak on 20th, so the days dated 1st and 20th, i m on canadian soil .. so actual no. of days i was away was 18, right, is that how it works?
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blackpearl
Junior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Use the residence calculator to find out http://services3.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/resCalcStartNew.do
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Beaver
Senior Member Joined: 05 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
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The CIC Residence Calculator was meant to make calculating one's basic and physical residency easy, less confusing, and to minimize wrong assumptions. You should try it out. Click on blackpearl's link.
Whatever results on it is relied on by CIC, and they regard the printed results that you attach to your application as your official claim of your absences in Canada when signed and dated. Edited by Beaver - 15 May 2010 at 10:51am |
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HUMDESI
Junior Member Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 118 |
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I found the answer to the question that i asked earlier.. i.e.
Q: so guys lets say i leave canada on 1st of the month and come bak on 20th, so the days dated 1st and 20th, i m on canadian soil .. so actual no. of days i was away was 18, right, is that how it works? A: When calculating an absence, either the day you leave Canada or the day you return is considered an absence, but not both. For example, an absence between July 1, 2003 and July 15, 2003 equals 14 days of absence. thanks guys for your inputs. |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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HUMDESI: Your question made sense and the answer is informative.
The answer is, however and of course, simply a quote from the CIC's FAQ's, from Q4 in particular; see http://services3.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq Re use of the residence calculator: The residence calculator only gives the net result for particular dates, and does not explain the result; thus it is only helpful for planning purposes if one understands the primary rules or methodology and also has very concrete dates to enter. One can, of course, enter numerous "what-if" scenarios, but for planning purposes encompassing three plus years this is often not practical. Understanding a simple rule like the one involved here is indeed helpful -- especially, for example, for someone who might make frequent brief trips, such as overnight trips to the States . . . since those days will add up over the course of four years (for just once a month weekend trips to the States, for example, in three years time it will add up to 36 days difference in days of absence), which can make a big difference for planning purposes. Indeed, the rule may be counter-intuitive to some who might conclude that any day (including partial day) spent in Canada should not count as an absence -- while others might intuit the opposite, that any day (again, including a partial day) spent abroad should count as an absence. The rule is neither. The rule basically counts the number of midnights one was outside Canada. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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