Why so rush?
Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Canadian Citizenship
Forum Description: Commentaries outlining important issues in acquiring Canadian citizenship through naturalization
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9439
Printed Date: 13 Jun 2024 at 9:35am
Topic: Why so rush?
Posted By: TheMan
Subject: Why so rush?
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 2:33pm
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I am just curious to find out why people are so eager to check their application status , posting on forums, calling people to find out when their Citizenship application will be processed. I mean it will happen when it will happen, whats the rush? You are already a PR. Are all these people want to get the passport and move to their home country (which is another topic of discussion)? |
Replies:
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 2:44pm
My friend ...this is because most of us are Human.......and consider this as big event in their life.....as with any big event in your life....there is anticipation, nervousness, excitement and of course dependencies on rest of the things to come in ones life.....may be tourism without needing a visa to Italy, Mexico....above all thrill of having a reached place which lot of us may have dreamt for 10 years back ..........(2-4 Yrs for PR approval, 3-4 YRS for Application and 1-2 Yrs for Approval)....... THERE ARE LOT OF REASONS MY MAN>>>. |
TheMan wrote:Posted By: SarahBC
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 2:59pm
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Hi there Man, I totally agree with SK! We have come to Canada with dreams and a mission and we want that mission accomplished. As for me I can sum up my reasons to the following: * I promised my kids a trip to Disneyland and I do not want to pay the $180 for the visa nor do I want to wait for hours and hours just because I am not Canadian. * I want to practice my right of voting and choose who would make Canada a better place for my kids. * I want to apply for a government job and although I am qualified I can not do so because I am not yet Canadian. * I left behind me a very well job and an established life and invested my time and effort in coming to Canada; I lived here paid taxes and did what I have to do as a good citizen and I want my reward  I can go on and on and on with more reasons however I think what is mentioned should be enough to tell you why we wait impatiently & eagerly for our RIGHT to be Canadian, Have a good day, Sarah
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 3:04pm
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hmm..that is interesting and I appreciate your response. Yes, it is a big event but an even bigger event was when you became a PR. You can move to Canada, work here, start up a business, raise a family, buy a house etc. I dont think becoming a Citizen is considered as a 'big event' where you are bugging the entire world for it and you need it now (unless you have other motives behind it). You can still travel around the world if you really need to with a PR. We do it with no problems. You already have your 'dream place' when you got your PR. I moved here 4 years ago and got eligible to apply for Citizenship months ago and I still have not applied for it yet. I will probably do it in the next month or so and when I do it, I will apply and forget about it. It will happen some day, I dont care of they take 5 years or so. I am not going anywhere because this is my home. I wish they start penalizing people who get their Citizenship and then say good bye to Canada. they should also start stamping 'exit' and 'entry' every time there is travel involved. This system needs an overhaul. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 3:24pm
Hello there First, I am 'TheMan' not 'Man'. You would not want me to misspell your name, would you? Ah.. the mission. Well my mission when I moved to Canada was to be able to find a job then to be able to buy a house then to raise a family and then start my own business. And I think i am on the right track. Becoming a Citizen was not my GOAL, it was a bi product of why i am here, yes. So you would rather wait 5 years to become a Citizen so you can take your family to the US vs getting a US visa and take your family now? I got here and applied for a US visa within a year in Canada and got a 5 year US visa and we go to the US once every 4-5 months. And no, they dont 'stop' you are the border anymore because special registration process has ended (if thats what your concern is) and as long as your I-94 is valid. We always go the custom's booth and they let us in right away. Govt. job, a job is a job, it will stay a 'job'. Think big, work towards becoming a business owner. I can go on and on... Good one.
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Posted By: SarahBC
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:05pm
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The Man! Sorry for mis spelling your name ( my bad )Jus wanted to let you know that yes I have moved here, got a job ,bought a house and I am settled and Canada is my home that I love ! Yet, I still want to travel without the visa process or fees and if you think it's not a big deal that is your opinion which I respect and do not agree with. Never thought of being a business owner; as a university professor I am quite happy with being paid a monthly salary without the hassle. To conclude it is just different points of view. To me it is a life changing mater to you it's not and each of us is entitled to what they think. Gr8 talking to you, Sarah ------------- . |
Posted By: canuck25
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:06pm
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TheMan, You make some valid points. On the other hand - you can't judge what's important to someone else according to your own value system. To me becoming a citizen is a much bigger deal than getting my PR. Your PR is in a way an open-ended work permit that gives you an opportunity to start a life in Canada, but does not include the most basic of rights and responsibilities - to participate in the political process of the country that we love. Getting a PR for most of us is a testament to the economic value we offer Canada. It's an honorable transaction. Getting the citizenship is much more than that - it's a culmination of cultural, political, personal and emotional assimilation and transformation that all of the immigrants go through. It's about the acceptance of values that 35 million others choose to accept, while at the same time being welcomed to make our contribution to the country, not just to an economy. As far as travelling - I fully agree with the previous post that a Canadian passport is both an asset and a privilege to carry. I am from Eastern Europe and despite living in the US for over 10 years prior to moving to Canada, I still can't travel anywhere without getting a visa. And the PR - to my knowledge - doesn't help. Sure I have a 10-year visa to the US and I am content, but I equally am sure that for the other respondent it's not just about the $180 cost. It's about acceptance and acknowledgement by other countries, which naturally carries certain logistical benefits. I am curious to hear which country you visited and what citizenship you hold, because to my knowledge Canadian PR does little to open doors to top business destinations outside of the touristy countries of central and latin america. When I get my Citizenship - which I hope will be soon - I will for the first time truly feel that I officially am a part of Canada. Until then - I simply feel privileged having the opportunity to live and work here indefinitely. FYI - I helped start 3 companies since arriving in Canada, one of which was purchased by a billion dollar conglomerate, another one is becoming the fastest growing boutique consultancy in Toronto, and the third one is on its way to producing some of the best entertainment and theatre shows in North America.
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Posted By: XPEH
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:26pm
| When you buy something online, why do you receive a tracking number and check the status of your order? |
Posted By: Forestmember
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:37pm
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That sounds interesting. Hello TheMan, "You can move to Canada, work here, start up a business, raise a family, buy a house etc. I dont think becoming a Citizen is considered as a 'big event' where you are bugging the entire world for it and you need it now (unless you have other motives behind it)". Of course, PR can do all the things you mentioned above. Likewise, International students can also move within Canada, raise family, buy a house as long as they can afford them. Do you think there is any difference between the immigration status of an international student and a PR who does the above? Your answer may explain the motive. By the way, have you ever checked to find out that Federal and provincial jobs are given to Citizens ------> PR ------> Permit holders in that order? "You can still travel around the world if you really need to with a PR. We do it with no problems." YES, there is freedom of movement and PRs can travel around the world. You are right on that. But have you ever thought of traveling to the UK or the USA and because you are a PR, you need to go to Toronto, Vancouver etc to do finger prints and attend immigration interview to secure the necessary visa? Do you know how much it cost to fly from North Bay, Thunder Bay, Yellowknife etc to these US and UK visa centres just to do the finger print and the interview? I also guess because some people are PRs, hotels do not charge them when they go for visa interviews. Great savings there. Have you ever thought about the fees you pay online just to secure appointment for these visa interviews and the number of pictures and self address courier envelopes you need to buy in order to get the visa (if you pass the interview). If you do not know the answers, it cost me $1600 just to attend a UK visitor's visa interview and $1425 or so to get a US visa to attend work related workshops. Maybe, the last time you traveled by road to the US, you were not singled out to get into the USCBP office to do finger print, eye and facial scan and pay $6 to secure an I-94 valid for a max of 90 days. ''I moved here 4 years ago and got eligible to apply for Citizenship months ago and I still have not applied for it yet. I will probably do it in the next month or so and when I do it, I will apply and forget about it. It will happen some day, I dont care of they take 5 years or so." I know people who moved here more than 30 years ago and do not want to apply for citizenship. I had way more than your 4 years before I applied, and there are uncountable members on this great site who have more years than I do, so you will not be first PR to exceed four years without applying for citizenship. I am not sure why you even want to apply for Canadian citizenship because PR and Citizens are the same based on your theory. A friendly advice when you apply for your citizenship 1. Never check your status online because when CIC needs additional documents, you will be notified instantly through vision and if that does not happen, trust that there is no deadline for any CIC document request. Who knows, they can courier it to you. 2. And by the way, if your mailed letter for the test does not arrive before your test date and you never checked your status online to see your file update, your local CIC office will let someone hand deliver the questions to you to write in the comfort of your home. Who knows, they may even give you special dispensation when you miss your oath ceremony because you never checked the status online and your mailed package arrived after the ceremony day. "I am not going anywhere because this is my home''.
You nailed it right, you are not going any where. After all, this is your home and native land, the true North and Strong. I guess the Canadians who travel outside for business and pleasure are then not Canadians anymore because this is no longer their home. Who knows, your version of the Canadian constitution may state that once a Canadian, always live here or its no longer your home. Your "not going anywhere" makes me understand clearly why you do not know the difference in travel requirements and cost involved for a PR and a citizen. I like people who let others decide for them from the Federal, Provincial to the local level, including school boards. Those who understand that a PR and a citizen are not the same sometimes take action by voting to "overall the system" you mentioned. I am afraid, you can only vote and take decisions even on school board elections when you are a citizen. Fellow Forum members who understand the difference between PR and citizenship, please note: being a Canadian citizen is choice, if you do not want to become one due to any reason, that is great and respectable, after all, not all countries accept dual citizenship. Thank you.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:40pm
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Who is judging? I am just trying to understand why it seems like the whole world is falling apart when it come to getting the Citizenship. How can becoming a Citizen can be a BIGGER deal than a PR? How can you possibly become a Citizen prior to becoming a PR and without being in the country. It does not make any sense (with all respect). A PR is an open ended work permit? Thats a first  and it "restricts the basics of human rights", you serious?  Like I said, if traveling is so important to you, you would get the visa and travel if traveling is NOT so important to you then your argument of getting the Citizenship so that you can travel is not valid.
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Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 4:55pm
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THEMan, This is is not debate forum, hope you understand this.....as much i respect your view i am sure they are correct from your perspective.....but please don't force them on others....i can go ahead and write an essay on how and why is citizenship more important than PR...(there are legal reasons too ....from getting convicted ...accidents can happen in life etc...)....you can loose your PR in various circumstances even being in the country but you cannot loose citizenship..(except if one falsified their way to it) ....... I am presuming you are in no hurry or have desire to be a citizen fast ....and i understand and respect it.....but pls dont expect everyone else to be like you...( the reason i said most humans...and their feelings in first quote...)...i hope this conversation ends here ......and we look forward to your inputs as and when they are available for your application..(if you so desire)..........till then let this forum be about people who are already in process ....and not the ones who either don't intend to or already in the process of citizenship application..... thanks once again.. |
Posted By: canuck25
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 5:01pm
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I would absolutely state that the ability to vote - in my view - is a huge benefit of citizenship. It's an acknowledgment that your voice matters - not just the taxes you pay as a PR. One thing to note - the value of citizenship is different to different people and is determined by one's journey to Canada and the life (s)he had before. Clearly we come from very different places. That being said - I also view my PR status as a privilege to work and live in this county, and treasure it every single day. I agree with SK (and humbly apologize
 ) for continuing this discussion, but things needed to be said. |
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 5:07pm
| You are okay Canuk....anyone who ever has a questions why become a Canadian (practical reasons) can always refer to your last post.....:-) |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 10:14pm
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I normally seize all communication as soon as I smell sarcasm but this time I will make an exception and try to intelligently respond to you and see how you take it. "Of course, PR can do all the things you mentioned above. Likewise, International students can also move within Canada, raise family, buy a house as long as they can afford them. Do you think there is any difference between the immigration status of an international student and a PR who does the above? Your answer may explain the motive. " How in the world can an international student buy a house, this proves to me that you know very little about mortgage system? There is no comparison between an international student and a permanent resident. I never said that and you can not compare apples with oranges. By the way, have you ever checked to find out that Federal and provincial jobs are given to Citizens ------> PR ------> Permit holders in that order?
If the goal in your life is to be able to get a govt. job then yes, you need to become a citizen. But again, a job is a job. I dont believe in working for other people and making others richer and richer when you can do all of that for yourself. I am sorry, I just think big. YES, there is freedom of movement and PRs can travel around the world. You are right on that. But have you ever thought of traveling to the UK or the USA and because you are a PR, you need to go to Toronto, Vancouver etc to do finger prints and attend immigration interview to secure the necessary visa? Do you know how much it cost to fly from North Bay, Thunder Bay, Yellowknife etc to these US and UK visa centres just to do the finger print and the interview? I also guess because some people are PRs, hotels do not charge them when they go for visa interviews. Great savings there. Have you ever thought about the fees you pay online just to secure appointment for these visa interviews and the number of pictures and self address courier envelopes you need to buy in order to get the visa (if you pass the interview). If you do not know the answers, it cost me $1600 just to attend a UK visitor's visa interview and $1425 or so to get a US visa to attend work related workshops. Maybe, the last time you traveled by road to the US, you were not singled out to get into the USCBP office to do finger print, eye and facial scan and pay $6 to secure an I-94 valid for a max of 90 days. This clearly shows me that you have very little knowledge about what you are trying to discuss with me. Me and my wife go to US once every 4-5 months. Sometimes we fly and sometimes we drive. We never had a problem and like I mentioned above they dont do finger prints anymore. You are one of those people who are scared of crossing the border because you think that you might get interrogated. If you fly, you can sign up for a Redress Control #, put that # in your online booking and they will never question you. I do that all the time. Here is the link http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1257360592800.shtm - http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1257360592800.shtm Also, you have very limited knowledge about I-94s. They are not valid for 90 days. They are in fact valid for 6 months. You dont have to surrender your I-94 upon departure from US if you are entering Canada so you can use the same I-94 for up to six months, unlimited # of times. Maybe next time when you cross the border, you should ask this question. When I apply for Citizenship, I will track it online and you know how am i going to do it? I will setup a reminder in my blackberry to check the status once a month and that is about it. I can keep going on the rest of your post but I think you got the message....peace.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 10:21pm
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First of all, stop putting words in my mouth. I never forced my opinions on to others. You assumed that to be the case but thats your act. Plus, you cant tell people what to do. Why is that I am not entitled to my opinion. If you dont like what I says then just ignore and not respond. If you lose your PR status because of conviction then you deserve it. Honestly, do you really think that yourself and other people really really want to become a Citizen so that they can VOTE or get a GOVT. job - as if they have open positions ready for all international people. wow. get real man.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 10:22pm
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Citizenship has definitely great value to it but not to a point to lose your sleep over it. ...unless of course you have other motives....
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Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 8:41am
| Cool..Theman.....best of luck and Enjoy....monthly online checking if and when you apply... |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 12:20pm
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TheMan: You probably sensed it right but on this forum you did not encounter those. Here are some of the other motives that no one knew on this forum: 1) Some do not live here and try to get citizenship for future benefits and next generation. Remember, during disasters only citizens will be evacuated from other countries. 2) Some will live here but right after citizenship departs and live where they can make a living. 3) Some may drive to US and fly out of there retaining CTBT since there will be no record. This CTBT amount could provide lavish life style in some countries and besides that they have their jobs as well. 4) If the job else where require them to return asap, they are in a rush to get approval. 5) Some may have applied with a few months presence here as they never could live here and want to know asap if they were able to sneak through. 6) Also PR cards could take over 7 years in most countries and at that point the applicant is well established in home country so they would like to get citizenship and go back thus the rush. PLEASE NOTE, the above is not for the majority of the applicants. However, for the rest of common people, it is all individual and goes as follows: 1) They just do not like waiting. 2) Voting rights. 3) They can freely now look for another job or business else where as well such as USA. 4) Traveling is much easier on a short notice. Such as cruise ticket on a discount price at the last minute but ouch you need visas to such and such place. So passport makes it easier. 5) For some people renewing passport of their home country is also a challenge. Remember not all of us are business material like you so more power to you. I tried it and lost 100K in two years and just closed the business and back to job. I know many how lost money and are back in jobs. So you were looking for opinion and I gave you my opinion. Now it is up to you to accept or reject. And you are free to take it either way. Hope this is helpful. |
Posted By: Kazakhstan
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 12:26am
In my particular case, I was getting (very reasonably) impatient toward the end of the process for one reason: - My retirement savings back in my home country... As soon as I get my Cdn passport, I will be eligible to withdraw the savings. Hardly a huge amount of money, but, hey, that's my savings set aside in N years of hard hard work... The way inflation of the local currency over there has been, the sooner I am able to get hold of my hard-earned money, the better...
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Posted By: EasyRider
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 7:43am
For my situation I can answer with citation from the federal court case:
And most importantly: Between the cup and the lip a morsel may slip. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 10:37am
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I appreciate your response. Items 1 through 6 in your first groups are associated with getting the Citizenship asap and then moving (in one form or another) to their home countries or somewhere else. This is legally 100% allowed but ethically and morally incorrect (in my opinion). In your second group below, items 1 & 2 also belong to the first group (leaving the country after getting the passport). About # 4) Last minutes cruise deals? I mean if you have a job, have kids, have a spouse, you can just buy DISCOUNTED tickets last minutes for a 4-7 day cruise and leave the next day? I mean do you not plan for something like that? Like a month before. We went to Bahamas and we did not need a visa. About # 5) how often do you have to go through the process of renewing the passport of your home country, once every 5 years? Come on now :) BTW, I call Canada my home, all other countries are foreign countries to me. You cant wait to get Canadian Citizenship but still dont call this your home country. Thats contradicting to me. You are right, running a business is not for everyone. I came here under 'Skilled Worker Category' and I also wanted an ideal job, dress clothes, a desk job, working 9-5. But I started to look around and started paying attention to the word 'SKILLED' and I got the message. I started working on improving my skills got certified and I am very happy to work in the field and be my own boss. My total investment was $10K and I was good to go. My opinion, instead of spending my time on tracking my Citizenship application online, posting on forum, calling CIC call centers, I would rather spend that time on my business. It will happen when it happen and I am not worried about it because this is my home and I am not going anywhere. They can take all the time in the world. Voting? I will vote when I become a citizen, no hurries, the world is not coming to an end. Relax.
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Posted By: RQhere
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 11:02am
The Man, I respect your thoughts, but my humble request and suggestion for you is to follow your opinion that you have informed above (in quotes), Since you are not worried for your citizenship, Please concentrate on your business. Don't get me wrong but looks like you are spending more time on this forum rather than your business . And this forum is for people who are interested in getting citizenship and sharing thoughts on how to help each other in a legal way to get it. |
Posted By: EasyRider
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 11:14am
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 11:27am
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[/QUOTE]Let me ask you, WHY Canada then? For an active business person USA provides more opportunities-- larger market, lower taxes, cheaper services, more people and variety, individualistic attitudes. Result-- more expression and more $$$. Canada's better for weak, ill people, who enjoy to subsidize welfare people and Quebec. [/QUOTE] Very good questions. Why Canada? Its because I moved from States where I was on a student visa. So I moved to Canada instead of staying there on visas etc (H1). I wanted to call a place 'home' instead of getting a passport and moving somewhere else. If you paid attention to my previous post, you would notice I said that I came to Canada thinking of getting the same ideal desk job etc. At the time I was not an 'active business person' as you put it and did not know the differences b/w US and Canada. Also the type of business I am in now (Home Inspections), its very very busy in Canada than in the US. The house sales happening in Canada is far more than in the US. Hope that answer your questions. Thats why I am here, brother. |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 12:23pm
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[QUOTE=TheMan]
I appreciate your response. In your second group below, items 1 & 2 also belong to the first group (leaving the country after getting the passport). ANSWER: The above Purely your opinion: About # 4) Last minutes cruise deals? I mean if you have a job, have kids, have a spouse, you can just buy DISCOUNTED tickets last minutes for a 4-7 day cruise and leave the next day? I mean do you not plan for something like that? Like a month before. We went to Bahamas and we did not need a visa. ANSWER: It varies from person to person. Some people do not plan. Only Ostridge hide their head in the sand. Look around yourself and you will find variety of people. If you still do not agree fine but it does exist. Let logic prevail. I think you are adamant of keeping your point of view instead of seeing others About # 5) how often do you have to go through the process of renewing the passport of your home country, once every 5 years? Come on now :) Logically irrelevant question. I met people who think it is a hassle and thus put it as a reason and believe it could be. Never done it myself however but am counting others opinion. BTW, I call Canada my home, all other countries are foreign countries to me. You cant wait to get Canadian Citizenship but still dont call this your home country. Thats contradicting to me. ANSWER: I never said I don't call Canada as my home country--let logic prevail. You are right, running a business is not for everyone. I came here under 'Skilled Worker Category' and I also wanted an ideal job, dress clothes, a desk job, working 9-5. But I started to look around and started paying attention to the word 'SKILLED' and I got the message. I started working on improving my skills got certified and I am very happy to work in the field and be my own boss. My total investment was $10K and I was good to go. ANSWER: "GOOD FOR YOU" but as I said if we all do business who would work and do the other things? Who would have even brought you to this country. Civil servants processed your case, airline pilots flew you here. and in the end it is not the point but a reason for some so accept this as a reason for some and don't side track the discussion. My opinion, instead of spending my time on tracking my Citizenship application online, posting on forum, calling CIC call centers, I would rather spend that time on my business. It will happen when it happen and I am not worried about it because this is my home and I am not going anywhere. They can take all the time in the world. ANSWER: Why are you spending time here on this forum then. GET BACK TO WORK? I am saying this to answer your questions above. Curiosity-human nature Voting? I will vote when I become a citizen, no hurries, the world is not coming to an end. Relax. ANSWER: SURE_this is true for everyone but for some it is a milestone and are more curious-simple and it still remain a valid reason no matter what you think. |
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 12:39pm
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Dear All, I think we should leave Theman alone....i said about a week back ...he is just strongly opinionated person who believes that his reality of life should be accepted as is by others.....and he has the right to believe so....he also has the right to believe that he is more deserving than others ...(i call Canada my home, i started a business, i am not going anywhere, i plan or not plan trips..etc).... I think we should focus on the forum and issues on hand.....i mean as immi as some of us just curious.....i happen to be one of them.....i am pretty sure my application is very normal....but i really love to know the inner workings of CIC if possible.......as this will probably happen to me only once in my lifetime..... All the more by knowing more i an may be help others in future..... So THeman, hope you do great ....and pls let others waste their time being on this forum...as you said things will happen when they happen ....and i will add people will do what they do...when they do.....we respect your first part ...please respect second part for us.... thanks |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 2:13pm
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I think it is OK to discuss one's opinions here . . . including opinions regarding policy . . . including opinions regarding reasons to immigrate, become a citizen, or not, and so on. (Note: my role as a moderator is mostly as a spam cop and I do not ordinarily act as a moderator here in any other fashion, except perhaps to address obvious and egregious breaches of decorum. This post is an expression of my opinion as a participant, for example, not as a moderator.) It is not OK to disrupt a topic. But TheMan started this topic to explicitly discuss views about why rush to apply for citizenship, so that does not disrupt anyone else's discussion in any other topic here. Strong opinions are OK and are indeed common (see for example numerous posts by SK criticizing CIC and objecting to a defence of CIC) . . . of course due decorum should be exercised and ad hominem and other forms of personally offensive commentary should be avoided. But for anyone who does not want to discuss these issues, they are of course free to ignore topics like this . . . as I have until now. (I tend to agree that there are, indeed, genuine considerations underlying a question like "why rush?" such as the simple pragmatic issue of avoiding RQ by not sending in an application when one's situation may appear ambiguous to a bureaucrat who is a total stranger, such as when it is not entirely apparent on the face of things that one was indeed permanently settled into a home in Canada, even though technically one has met the eligibility requirements . . . but I have addressed and explained that often enough elsewhere.) ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 3:24pm
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Thank you for the comments. I just dont understand why people are jumping down my throat if all I am doing is stating my opinion. I posted a very reasonable question (as least to my knowledge) and I started acting on peoples' responses. I did not start picking random people asking them to respond to my question. When people express their opinion, I think I have the right to respond. Whats wrong with that? I do believe that I have a very valid point.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 3:50pm
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About # 4) Last minutes cruise deals? I mean if you have a job, have kids, have a spouse, you can just buy DISCOUNTED tickets last minutes for a 4-7 day cruise and leave the next day? I mean do you not plan for something like that? Like a month before. We went to Bahamas and we did not need a visa. ANSWER: It varies from person to person. Some people do not plan. Only Ostridge hide their head in the sand. Look around yourself and you will find variety of people. If you still do not agree fine but it does exist. Let logic prevail. I think you are adamant of keeping your point of view instead of seeing others Again, if you want to get involved in an intelligent discussion then I am all up for it but give me something to work with. You are saying that some people dont plan for 4-7 day cruise. Instead of just making that statement, I would like to find out how can you manage to do it. Last minutes deals are 'last min deals', dont you have to get time off work, wait for the break from school for kids? Your spouse (if working) also needs to take time off work. Is this not planing? Ok, maybe a hand full of people dont plan but majority of the people do. Are you saying that people dont leave the country for 4-5 years for any vacation until they get their Citizenship, regardless of the perfect timing? About # 5) how often do you have to go through the process of renewing the passport of your home country, once every 5 years? Come on now :) Logically irrelevant question. I met people who think it is a hassle and thus put it as a reason and believe it could be. Never done it myself however but am counting others opinion. How is this an irrelevant question? I am also annoyed by the consulate services offered by the country where I was born but that does not mean that I let my passport expire and dont go on vacation on a visa if I have a perfect opportunity to do so. Thats what you are saying here that people dont want to deal with their 'home country' consulate which is why they want to get the Citizenship asap. BTW, I call Canada my home, all other countries are foreign countries to me. You cant wait to get Canadian Citizenship but still dont call this your home country. Thats contradicting to me. ANSWER: I never said I don't call Canada as my home country--let logic prevail. I never said that you did. You are right, running a business is not for everyone. I came here under 'Skilled Worker Category' and I also wanted an ideal job, dress clothes, a desk job, working 9-5. But I started to look around and started paying attention to the word 'SKILLED' and I got the message. I started working on improving my skills got certified and I am very happy to work in the field and be my own boss. My total investment was $10K and I was good to go. ANSWER: "GOOD FOR YOU" but as I said if we all do business who would work and do the other things? Who would have even brought you to this country. Civil servants processed your case, airline pilots flew you here. and in the end it is not the point but a reason for some so accept this as a reason for some and don't side track the discussion. I agree with you here. I dont want everyone to be a business owner. I dont like competitors. Plus, you can still work 9-5 and can still be a business owner. Ask me how and I will tell you. My opinion, instead of spending my time on tracking my Citizenship application online, posting on forum, calling CIC call centers, I would rather spend that time on my business. It will happen when it happen and I am not worried about it because this is my home and I am not going anywhere. They can take all the time in the world. ANSWER: Why are you spending time here on this forum then. GET BACK TO WORK? I am saying this to answer your questions above. Curiosity-human nature I am here because I feel that its important to respond. Plus, my business is my first priority, I will never spend a sec on this forum unless I am all caught up with my inspection bookings and reporting for the day. I need time off too Voting? I will vote when I become a citizen, no hurries, the world is not coming to an end. Relax. ANSWER: SURE_this is true for everyone but for some it is a milestone and are more curious-simple and it still remain a valid reason no matter what you think. Valid reason = Yes
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 3:55pm
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Dear All, I think we should leave Theman alone....i said about a week back ...he is just strongly opinionated person who believes that his reality of life should be accepted as is by others.....
Show me where I said that you have to accept my view points? So THeman, hope you do great ....and pls let others waste their time being on this forum...as you said things will happen when they happen ....and i will add people will do what they do...when they do.....we respect your first part ...please respect second part for us.... thanks I never forced a conversation. You can ignore if you like but if you have to say something then I think it is reasonable for me to respond. Reporting me or my posts to the moderator is not going to help (not saying that you did). That is simply dodging the facts.
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 7:45pm
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Posted By: missie
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 11:05pm
| theman: try travelling on a pakistani passport. when making a road trip to the u.s., for example, we had to wait 3.5 hours once, and 3 hours another time, at the u.s. border immigration. For me, its one of the biggest reason for my 'impatience'. i have close family in the u.s. I rarely visit them because air travel is expensive, i cant take advantage of last minute deals coz of kids schooling etc., and road travel is such a hassle with us. Cant wait for the passport so i can easily road trip to the u.s. In air travel too, we are subjected to extra scrutiny, and there have been stories of harassment, people missing their flights etc. |
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 11:25pm
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Once again Missie gave one example....and i can assure you there are others who will have various personal reasons for why they want to get over with the process as soon as possible...but again understanding all this requires empathy and appreciation that there can be a view beyond what ones blindly thinks is right.... One basic observation......all of us who are in this forum are here in Canada because we left our country of origin for one reason or the other to settle here......and if one is eager to move beyond the past as settle into the future fast and in earnest i don't understand what is wrong with it....( and pls dont say you have PR and that should be enough..if that is the case...pls dont apply for citizenship....) And the whole premise that has been floated around by few (very few) on this forum that anyone who wants the process to move faster or more efficiently has ulterior motives , like leaving country after getting passport.....or what ever is preposterous(yes it happens , but no need to generalize and paint everyone in same color).... and if one says that is not the case ...then there is no reason for anyone not to expect a process that takes maximum 4-6 months in any other OECD country to be faster ....actually way faster and transparent.... One can justify all he/she wants ...i intend to and hopefully will be citizen of this country soon and being a immigrant myself have views about plight of similar folks like me...and i believe things should be made faster .....again government may decide to change law and stop immigration all together.....but as long as they have a policy in place......it should be fast and efficient ... |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 8:34am
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Again, if you want to get involved in an intelligent discussion then I am all up for it but give me something to work with. You are saying that some people dont plan for 4-7 day cruise. Instead of just making that statement, I would like to find out how can you manage to do it. Last minutes deals are 'last min deals', dont you have to get time off work, wait for the break from school for kids? Your spouse (if working) also needs to take time off work. Is this not planing? Ok, maybe a hand full of people dont plan but majority of the people do. Are you saying that people dont leave the country for 4-5 years for any vacation until they get their Citizenship, regardless of the perfect timing? IMMIGRANT11 Answers: YES---THEY ARE BOTH SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH NO KIDS AND NORMALLY ENJOY LAST MINUTE HOP ON DEALS (summer holidays winter break etc etc if you can imagine it yourself). whatever the argument-the reason stays valid OK great. How many people on this people fall in the category of being school teachers who can take advantage of last minute deals, pack their bags and leave the next day? Also, we are talking about majority of the people here NOT you or a couple you know, think broad. In addition to that, you are using an example of school teachers and going on last min deals in summer and breaks. Well, you just contracdicted yourself because in your example that couple who happend to be coincidently school teachers must have also "talked" about looking out for any last minute deals during summer or winter breaks etc. THAT IS CALLED PLANING which is what I was referring to. Short notice or long notice everyone plans. Are you saying that the couple in your example did not leave the country for 4-5 years until they get their Citizenship and spend 4-5 summers, winter breaks etc in Canada because they did not want to apply for the visa of the country they wanted to visit? The point of the matter is, and read this like 5 times before replying. Normal people WHO LIKE TRAVELING do not stay in Canada for 4-5 years (waiting for their Citizenship) just because they do not want to go through the 'hassle' of getting the visa to travel. They plan and get the visa,wait for summer to get the last minute deals as you suggested. How is this an irrelevant question? I am also annoyed by the consulate services offered by the country where I was born but that does not mean that I let my passport expire and dont go on vacation on a visa if I have a perfect opportunity to do so. Thats what you are saying here that people dont want to deal with their 'home country' consulate which is why they want to get the Citizenship asap. IMMIGRANT11 Answers:Never said what you think: They just do not want to go through the hassle. Some do not even have a consulate here-I met one couple at least who mentioned and I was shocked. So hope you are good with that. Again, we are talking about majority of the people here. Majority of the people on this forum are not frustrated about consulate services of their countries and want Citizenship to avoid this. I agree with you here. I dont want everyone to be a business owner. I dont like competitors. Plus, you can still work 9-5 and can still be a business owner. Ask me how and I will tell you. IMMIGRANT11 Answers: Not interested in any business myself but will help others if you like post it in a separate post for others new immigrants as a useful opinion. For me it is enough that you agree and removes this one from discussion. Thanks 2 for 2 Again, you are not interested in any business which is what I want because I dont want everyone to be a business owner. I want most people to work jobs, helps me. Also, you cant tell people what to do. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 8:39am
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I know a lot of people who travel on Pakistani passport to the US with no problems. I personally had no problems at the border and I am not sure if you read my earlier posts but I have link there to get the redress control #, you can put that # on your online booking (if you are flying to the US) and they will never ask you anything.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 9:00am
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Posted By: xero9
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 10:14am
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TM, I don't think it's fair to label the majority of people who want the process to be wrapped up as quickly as possible abusers. After all, it is human nature to not have to wait. There's obviously abuse of the system, but don't mistake impatience with abuse. ------------- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9o70015IRPdFl6MnhXV0VZbnN1YnZWLXpld0Vya1E - Timeline for 2011 applications |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 6:40pm
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 6:49pm
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Theman: Certain things are not hassle for you are hassles for others no logic and nothing else to add. If you are going to reason the reasons then there is not much to say because the reasons are reasons that we shared with you. And if you are asking for reasons then they are there for all to see. All the best. |
Posted By: hunter2
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 1:34am
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Hello TheMan, If you want a simple answer about why many people obsess over their application process here is one: lack of control over their environment causes people (and other animals) stress and anxiety which in some individuals manifests as compulsive behavior, like for example repeated checking of things (which is a classic symptom). The CIC process is opaque enough to give the impression of lack of control, and some people stress over it more than others -- everyone is different. That does not mean that those people are cheating or have ill intent or any intent, it just means they stress easier -- not everyone has a good pokerface either, for the same reason. Keep in mind that not *all* people who apply for citizenship post on this site -- 99.99% don't. So what you have here is bias of self-selection, which makes it seem to you like *everyone* is stressing over their application, when in fact it's only a ridiculously small fraction of people, with whom you have chosen to pick a fight here by essentially asking them why they were born that way... In my case, I admit I was myself repeatedly checking the site and stressing over every detail, even though rationally I knew it would not make a difference. After I got my citizenship, guess what? I am still in Canada. I am sure that for the vast majority of people who post it's just a case of anxiety. May be you have been anxious over something in your life too at some point and after the event you thought it was not worth worrying -- a sports game perhaps, a love interest, or some other similarly inconsequential event? P.S. No matter how much you deny it, for *some* people it's a huge hassle to travel with their PR card + other country passport, due to the constant need to keep up with visas for everywhere, PR card renewal, etc. And some people like to travel, believe it or not, and given that we don't live in a prison it is their right. So a Canadian passport has huge practical value. And by the way, if I were you I wouldn't keep that I-94 on exit, because next time you enter you won't get a stamp, which will make it harder to prove your trip dates for CIC when you finally do apply...
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 9:09am
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IMMIGRANT11 Answers: YES---THEY ARE BOTH SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH NO KIDS AND NORMALLY ENJOY LAST MINUTE HOP ON DEALS (summer holidays winter break etc etc if you can imagine it yourself). whatever the argument-the reason stays valid OK great. How many people on this people fall in the category of being school teachers who can take advantage of last minute deals, pack their bags and leave the next day? Also, we are talking about majority of the people here NOT you or a couple you know, think broad. In addition to that, you are using an example of school teachers and going on last min deals in summer and breaks. Well, you just contracdicted yourself because in your example that couple who happend to be coincidently school teachers  must have also "talked" about looking out for any last minute deals during summer or winter breaks etc. THAT IS CALLED PLANING which is what I was referring to. Short notice or long notice everyone plans. Are you saying that the couple in your example did not leave the country for 4-5 years until they get their Citizenship and spend 4-5 summers, winter breaks etc in Canada because they did not want to apply for the visa of the country they wanted to visit? The point of the matter is, and read this like 5 times before replying. Normal people WHO LIKE TRAVELING do not stay in Canada for 4-5 years (waiting for their Citizenship) just because they do not want to go through the 'hassle' of getting the visa to travel. They plan and get the visa,wait for summer to get the last minute deals as you suggested. It does not matter: It is a reason and will stay a reason. The number of people are irrelevant What is what you are talking about that does not matter? Did you read my post? I asked you a question and made statements? Saying "it does not matter" to God knows what means that you are lost of words. IMMIGRANT11 Answers:Never said what you think: They just do not want to go through the hassle. Some do not even have a consulate here-I met one couple at least who mentioned and I was shocked. So hope you are good with that. Again, we are talking about majority of the people here. Majority of the people on this forum are not frustrated about consulate services of their countries and want Citizenship to avoid this. This is only your opinion. I never said all the items listed are for the majority. When there are more than two reason the majority will fall below 34% and will never be considered majority. Counting the number of reasons I posted alone answer your question. No, this is not my opinion butt is a fact. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 9:21am
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 9:22am
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Do you any input to this discussion?
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 9:38am
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 10:47am
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 10:50am
Are you asking a question? And would you like to answer my question first? |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 10:54am
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I have seriously started to doubt your reasoning ability by the way you are responding. Yes, I was asking a question because there was a question mark '?' at the end of my statement. Did you see that? And there was nothing to answer because you did not ask a question. Read your post. Now, I have a inspection to go to since I run a business, I will be back.
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 11:33am
Try to stay polite and don't get to a level where we start reporting you I had doubts on your reasoning abilities when I read your responses to others but now I see lots of other issues with you as well. You can not see others situations and marking people on this site the majority. Is this logic really. Take logic 101 please. You asked for reasons and then reject every reason people provide. Take logic 101 please. What a frustrated person you are. Others were right to leave you alone. |
Posted By: 2inCanada
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 1:13pm
Short answer: No. Longer and personalized answer: I am in a rush because I'm tired of the waiting game. I waited to enter Canada. I waited to apply for PR (personal reasons). I waited for my PR approval. I waited for the PR card. I waited to apply for citizenship. I waited for confirmation. I waited to hear they needed extra details (passport scan). I waited for the test. I waited to hear I passed. Now I am waiting for a letter to invite us to the ceremony, after that, the waiting will finally be over. Hope I have not been feeding any trolls with this message, whatever the case, I won't respond any further anyway  ------------- Received: 24 December 2010 Acknowledgement Letter: 16 February 2011 In Process: 11 October 2011 Transferred: 25 November 2011 Test: 23 February 2012 Oath: 10 May 2012 |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:30pm
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The man: I will ask you direct since you wee not bale to grasp it with "IF": 1) Are you are going to reason the reasons? 2) Are you asking for the reasons? |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:32pm
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What is what you are talking about that does not matter? Did you read my post? I asked you a question and made statements? Saying "it does not matter" to God knows what means that you are lost of words. The answer stays the same. The question you are asking are irrelevant since it stil does not matter. You asked first, don't people have job kids school etc so they wait for last minutes deals and I answered it they are school teachers with no kids. For them the reasons stay true. Now teh rest is just nit picking. Even that question was unnecessary if you answer my question: Are you going to reason the reasons or need the to find out the reasons. Lets try this again, this is what I was asking you which you did not respond and start babbling about 34% or something to that effect. "How many people on this people fall in the category of being school teachers who can take advantage of last minute deals, pack their bags and leave the next day? " AND "Are you saying that the couple in your example did not leave the country for 4-5 years until they get their Citizenship and spend 4-5 summers, winter breaks etc in Canada because they did not want to apply for the visa of the country they wanted to visit? " AND This was my point, "Normal people WHO LIKE TRAVELING do not stay in Canada for 4-5 years (waiting for their Citizenship) just because they do not want to go through the 'hassle' of getting the visa to travel. They plan and get the visa,wait for summer to get the last minute deals as you suggested." If you dont find my questions relevant or unnecessary, you are more than welcome to not respond. But you keep responding which tells me that I have a point. No, this is not my opinion butt is a fact. It is your opinion, read your statement above my red underline statement again. The word "majority" is used by you not me or anyone else. There are over 200,000 cases filed per year but you only read from a 1000 handful and you call them majority. So the majority label is your opinion. Again now were down to one It is the fact because when I brought up this discussion I was referring to the people on this forum who can not wait. I was not talking about 100s and 1000s of other people who do not feel the need of urgency to become a Citizen. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:37pm
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Try to stay polite and don't get to a level where we start reporting you. Someone (perhaps you) already tried reporting me and I think you are upset because the moderator said its OK to discuss. Again, I started this thread, if you dont agree with me, you dont have to say anything. I am not talking to you, I am just responding to your comments. I had doubts on your reasoning abilities when I read your responses to others but now I see lots of other issues with you as well. You can not see others situations and marking people on this site the majority. Is this logic really. Take logic 101 please. You asked for reasons and then reject every reason people provide. Take logic 101 please. What a frustrated person you are. Others were right to leave you alone You can choose to leave me alone as well, lets see your next move.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:41pm
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You said, "waiting game". You could call this a 'game' if they were purposely trying to delay your case for no reason. Are you saying that they have been unfair with you? How is it their problem if you 'cant wait'? Is complaining going to speed up the process?
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 2:42pm
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I will respond to however and whatever I see fit. We live in a free country, right?
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Posted By: 2inCanada
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 3:28pm
No, Sir, you are not, you are trying to argue. As I said before, I shall not respond any further. Have a great day!
 ------------- Received: 24 December 2010 Acknowledgement Letter: 16 February 2011 In Process: 11 October 2011 Transferred: 25 November 2011 Test: 23 February 2012 Oath: 10 May 2012 |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 3:34pm
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You can call it an argument but I call it a two way communication. You expect people to take your first response and not say a word anymore? Unfortunately, I believe in going back and forth until I get the answers. If you thou shall not respond then I am totally fine with it. No love lost.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 3:37pm
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BTW, I asked you these question in response to your post but did not answer my question and started a new post to ignore my questions. This tells me that you did not know what to say. Q 1: You said, "waiting game". You could call this a 'game' if they were purposely trying to delay your case for no reason. Are you saying that they have been unfair with you? Q 2: How is it their problem if you 'cant wait'? Q 3: Is complaining going to speed up the process?
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Posted By: xero9
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 3:45pm
This. This right here is why this discussion is dead as far as I'm concerned. That, and that fact with TM's inability to respond to quoted text properly. Too confusing to try and read. ------------- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9o70015IRPdFl6MnhXV0VZbnN1YnZWLXpld0Vya1E - Timeline for 2011 applications |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 4:50pm
Xero9 thanks. @Theman: Please get some help. I am sorry, I was not helpful. Good luck entertaining here. |
Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 4:58pm
You can take your own answer here: "I will respond to what I feel responding to"
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Posted By: immigrant11
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 4:59pm
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THE END |
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 5:04pm
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who so ever the moderator of this forum is ........can they please let us know the value of this thread except that someone will prove that they are holier than the rest........ Theman, we all agree and accept (well may be it just me)......you are right (what ever you are right about...i dont even know)......hope you can participate constructively.....leading upto most of our aspiration to be a candian citizen...(may be help along the way)...rather than asking questions ...which are of no help to any one like " WHY SO RUSH?" I am really hoping after so many days of discussion you got your answer and if you didnt , please dont expect to get any more enlightenment on this forum.......and if that was not your objective to begin with ....quit wasting everyones time......with inciteful remarks..........
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 9:42am
Yep, thats what I thought.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 9:50am
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Thats very typical. This might not be so valuable to you but it might be valuable to me. Why cant I ask questions? And how am I wasting everybody's time? If you reply to me, you are taking your time to talk to me so you are wasting your own time. I dont get it. You need to learn to blame the right entity. Thats my point, you are blaming me for wasting your time when you are the one who is responding to me. This is the same as you you blaming CIC for not processing your case any faster because its you who is being impatient. You see my point?
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Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 10:19am
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No i dont see your point because there is none.....and yes i do have an option of not responding to you...which i have kept at minimum so far.....but as i said earlier ..your conversations are not nuetral they are accusationary in nature ...which at time does ask for a response and you seem to have either decided to part with logic or simply want to prove something.....having said that i don't want to get drawn into something which i have advocated other not to do....so you respond to this with whatever convoluted logic you have and from here on like many other ...i choose not to be part of this any more.... Keep entertaining others who choose to be part of this....Theman.... and yes i one more parting remark ..i know it is important to you and only you....that is what i meant ....in a public forum which for more part has been very helpful to numerous here.....you are here doing your emotional bidding ........without caring what others may think or want....or feel....as you said its a free country .....keep going
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 10:24am
Correctamundo. My conversations are not neutral because I have a view point and I am not here to be politically correct. I asked you three questions in my post below and you failed to respond but did choose to lecture me.
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Posted By: xero9
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 1:56pm
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If anyone needs any further proof that Man is nothing but a troll, just take a look at their profile. Joined several minutes before starting this thread, and contributing nothing to ANY other thread. They were never interested in understanding anyone's desire or need. Simply to rattle some feathers of regular people just trying to get through this new stage of their life. You can continue to try to answer their questions if you'd like, but you're not going to get anywhere. ------------- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9o70015IRPdFl6MnhXV0VZbnN1YnZWLXpld0Vya1E - Timeline for 2011 applications |
Posted By: canuck25
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 2:05pm
| Ladies, gentlemen, amigos, caballeros, amies, whatever else I can call you) - as another member posted on page 1 or 2 of this topic - this forum serves a greater purposes than an emotional debate which offers no value to this community, but provides primal satisfaction to a handful of participants. Let's let it die and stop feeding the fire:) |
Posted By: SK
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 2:49pm
Correctamundo :-)
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 9:31am
Wow. I can not believe that. So you are saying that a member should wait a few days after signing up before posting something? I mean where do you get these rules from? Oh also, just FYI, I did not contribute to any other thread because I joined to ask what I wanted to ask. So the question I had in my mind (why so rush?) was the reason I joined. Hope that helps.
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Posted By: dynamite88
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2012 at 1:11pm
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My main purpose it to be able to VOTE and participate in JURY DUTY. :) Those 2 things you can't do as a PR unfortunately. I've been sitting on the back sit for too long and want to be able to feel like a full citizen of Canada when I can do those 2 things and can do them in a country that I care about. I can already travel anywhere with my current passport, so don't really care about that. ------------- Check out http://tinyurl.com/citizenshipflashcards - FREE Flash Cards iPhone app |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2012 at 10:05am
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I dont understand why certain people on this forum think that they speak for others. Everyone is responsible for their own act and opinion. On and BTW, one way of letting this thread 'die down' would be to not respond anymore which is the opposite to what you are doing? 
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2012 at 10:50am
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The debate is NOT about why you need to apply for Citizenship? Its a no brainer. The question is: Why you are in a rush to have this process completed as soon as possible? Why cant you wait for your turn and relax? That is the question. So based on that: Voting: Maybe only when the elections are right on the corner. But even then, voting does not warrant a rush to the process. If you are not a citizen yet then you have to wait till the next time to vote. Whats the big deal about it? Be able to participate in Jury Duty?: That a first, I mean seriously? You can simple tell them that you cant appear for jury duty because you are not a citizen yet and that will be the end of it. You wont even have to miss work for it (yeah yeah, I know you get time off work, usually paid but if you are a business owner, you loose business). You can also care about your country while be a PR.
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Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 3:07pm
I drink to that! No one should become a citizen unless CIC is satisfied that the applicants' intentions have been to stay in Canada for the rest of their lives. They should revoke citizenship of people who consider Canada as a 'backup' plan. |
Posted By: soon-to-be-canadian
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 3:25pm
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The Man New Canadians are not supposed to live the rest of their lives in Canada. They are free to leave and enter Canada whenever they wish. This is the LAW. New Canadians have divided family life in terms of parents and spouse and children. They are not supposed to let their parents die when their presence is needed the most. New Canadians make Canada their home to live and contribute to this wonerful country, this fact doesnt make it tabboo to return to their home country in near or far future when ever the need arises. ------------- Received July 27,2010 E-CAS Mid Nov. 2010 In process 28 March,2011 Transfer 09 May,2011 Test 06 June,2011 Oath May 17, 2012 |
Posted By: soon-to-be-canadian
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 3:58pm
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The Man You are VERY UNCANADIAN .------------- Received July 27,2010 E-CAS Mid Nov. 2010 In process 28 March,2011 Transfer 09 May,2011 Test 06 June,2011 Oath May 17, 2012 |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 4:02pm
Two things: 1. Your response did not answer any of my questions - meaning you are speechless. 2. I am more Canadian than you think I am. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:35pm
Well, shame on you for being the moderator and liking certain posts/members based on your personal believes. Not even that you moved my posts but not other posts that I responded to. I wonder who made you the moderator. Also, now that you have officially moved and have allowed me to express my opinion on "Why so rush?" thread, I am hoping that I will not see your face on that thread. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:38pm
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This thread is still alive!! For some reason, I am getting a feeling that this is going to last forever. Why so rush? I became eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship about 6 months ago and I am so busy with work that I am unable to apply for it yet. I dont know when is that going to happen...but I really dont care because this is my home and I am not going anywhere. Why so rush? |
Posted By: xero9
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 8:15pm
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Two things.. This:
Contradicts this statement:
Technically, you are not Canadian at all Secondly, "Why so rush" is just bad English. ------------- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9o70015IRPdFl6MnhXV0VZbnN1YnZWLXpld0Vya1E - Timeline for 2011 applications |
Posted By: EasyRider
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 8:59pm
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Why so rush, you're a business-minded practical person, right? In short: 1) services prices are/will be going up for sure (while timelines increasing) 2) immigration laws are tightening all over the world including Canada, that means more and more obstacles => more papers to obtain, more personal time wasted, additional $$$ paid Couple examples: 1) if you go to citizenship application page ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp ), you can notice that a yellow square under the title have appeared in the recent weeks. What they want to do is make one apply with a test paper (like IELTS)-- "Under the http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2012/2012-04-21/html/reg1-eng.html - proposed change , prospective citizens would be required to provide objective evidence of their language ability with their citizenship applications. Applicants would be able to demonstrate language ability by submitting a variety of evidence, including the results of approved third party tests, evidence of completion of secondary or post-secondary education in English or French, or evidence of achieving the appropriate language level in certain government funded language training programs." What does it that mean for a future applicant (like you)? If you can't fetch a language certificate on spot, you'll need to start mastering you grammar and writing skills, schedule a test (e.g. IELTS), waste your time preparing and during test day one more time, yeah, and pay modest fee of CDN $265 for a group-test with a broken cassette recorder. I remember the time when IELTS test was around $80 a few years ago. 2) Under guise of technological security improvements passport Canada proposes new fees for obtaining passport. Check out this article ( http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110918/passport-cost-110918/ - http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110918/passport-cost-110918/ )-- "But an expense claim filed by Prime Minister Stephen Harper indicates the cost of the diplomatic version is far more than the $87 that adult Canadians pay now. Harper purchased four diplomatic ePassports for himself, his wife and two children late last year, at $225 each, for a total bill of $900. The cost was picked up by taxpayers through his department, the Privy Council Office, according to documents obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act." The list of proposed fee increases is here: http://www.ppt.gc.ca/consultations/proposition/propo-parl.aspx?lang=eng - http://www.ppt.gc.ca/consultations/proposition/propo-parl.aspx?lang=eng . Now multiply the difference of service required by the time of your family members (if you have them). 3) Citizenship application price now is $200 if I'm not mistaken, but it's a very generous prices and this one they haven't bitten yet. I can assure you they will sooner or later and it will be multiple times more expensive that it's now. I follow some other countries' immigration changes and prices for immigration/citizenship services multiplied everywhere. Canada, being part of globally influenced decision making system, will follow. Not so old changes In Ireland, for example: "IMMIGRANTS applying for Irish citizenship will now be required to cough up almost €1,000 following a significant hike in the application fee. The new general application fee of €950 is a substantial increase on the previous payment of just over €637, while the fee for applications on behalf of minors and from widows of Irish citizens is now €200, up from the previous amount of just over €126." Bottom line: it's obvious there's a trend that it's becoming harder and more expensive to get through citizenship application over the time and it will take more time to complete application. One will have to gather more papers, waste more time, pay more for worse timelines. Side issue, but if there something severe will happen with economy (like USD goes down in a neighboring country dragging everyone else down), CIC budget and its effectiveness will become at the bottom of priority list with all the consequences, even possible temporary suspension of program. So, the question should be: why don't apply now (and try to finalize the process asap)? |
Posted By: eli
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 12:41am
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my thoughts on this topic: Canadian law currently does not require you to stay in Canada after being granted citizenship (or applying). It's like that everywhere around the word. Can someone abuse the system? Maybe. But we can make adjustments in laws so that this does not happen. Canada can tighten citizenship requirements to ensure that those granted are likely to stay afterwards (proof of employment, ties to Canada, proof of centralizing one's life in Canada, adjustments in the citizenship act to reflect these changes). It can be implemented. And I think the current government is moving to this direction. Getting Canadian citizenship for the purpose of obtaining the passport is BAD!
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 1:12am
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Your thoughts, eli, are probably, I believe, representative of the general view about this. And I too tend to think that there will be some changes coming which will indeed make the residency requirement more strict and perhaps address other issues related to this. It is clear, the Harper government generally, and Minister Kenney in particular, intend to reduce the extent to which the Canadian citizenship is obtained for the primary purpose of having a Canadian passport. But what EasyRider posted is a point well-taken as well. And indeed this does appear to be a world-wide trend. It may be a temporary trend, in part due to the global economic situation, but for now this does seem to be the trend. And indeed, changes to the Canadian Citizenship Act seem almost certain to happen, though the question is what those changes will mean for prospective citizenship applicants. So there is some pressure, indeed, on those who are now eligible for citizenship but who may not have reached the 1095+ threshold for physical presence. That, however, is not the same issue that underscores the more controversial side of this discussion, the rush to get a Canadian passport by those who do not really intend to remain settled in Canada, who do not really intend to make Canada their lifetime home. This leads back to the observation by eli that seeking citizenship for the primary purpose of obtaining the Canadian passport is a bad thing . . . at least the Harper government thinks so and appears to be taking steps toward reducing the extent to which this happens. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:09am
See? Thats, its that typo of thinking that pushes you to stay an 'immigrant' and stops you from considering Canada your home. My above two statements dont contradicts with each other. Think about it again before you start typing. The type of Canadian I am has nothing to do with how soon I apply for Canadian Citizenship. Canadian passport is not a sign of the fact that you love this country and want to stay here for good. If that was the case then people would not just go 'back home' after getting the citizenship. As far as commenting on bad English. I will let others decide whether this is any relevant to this discussion or not. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:12am
I am glad you included the bottom line because I dont have time to read lectures. Sticking to the point....The process is only harder for people who have intentions to leave Canada after getting their citizenship. Who cares, if the fee goes up by $100 or so. Its worth the price. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:15am
Correct. If you have genuine reasons to leave Canada for good then yes, understandable. But in most cases its all planned. Yes, it is 'most' not a few but most. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:24am
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Some of the scholars here seem to be confused as to what the point of discussion is. My real problem is not with the people who apply for Citizenship soon after they become eligible. My problem is with the people how apply right away and then CAN NOT wait for the process to be completed at its own pace and complain complain and complain. P.S and BTW, I also have a little problem with people who do in fact apply for Citizenship right after they become eligible and most of them want to leave Canada for good after becoming Citizen. problem problem. |
Posted By: bluejay
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:31am
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I'm glad you have these problems but you don't need to come here and provoke everyone with your discontent.
Everyone has different reasons why they want to become citizens. You cannot generalize like that and say that everyone is complaining.
The long wait for citizenship isn't any different than the wait for a university application to go through, the wait for a job interview or any other major changes in your life.
You don't see the importance of having a passport to be a Canadian. Great! Some people don't see the importance of a university degree to demonstrate education. That's fine too, but don't go hating on people because they work hard towards a degree or because they applied for citizenship.
Live and let live, but please no trolling on this message board. ------------- Toronto (St. Clair) Sent: Aug.17'11| Received: Aug.19'11 | e-Cas: Sep.20'11| Letter: Oct.3'11 | In Process: Apr.10'12 | Transferred: May.4'12| Test: Oct.11'12 | Oath: Oct.26'12 |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:44am
So let me get this straight. When you say something its 'stating your opinion' and when I say something that you dont like to hear, 'its provoking everything with my discontent'. So typical... NO, applying for Canadian Citizenship is not even remotely equal to admission application at a university or a job interview. lol (Whats your background? just curious). You lose time, miss semester/quarter and if you dont have a job, you cant pay your bills. However, applying for Citizenship and PUSHING the system to go faster for specifically you is uncalled for. If you are going to have an intelligent conversation with me then you have to give me something to work with. huh, when did I hate on people because they have worked hard towards a degree? You are putting words in my mouth. Education was never part of the discussion here. |
Posted By: montrealia
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:52am
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I can answer for myself. The rush for me is that I have a crappy passport and need visas to visit some countries including the US. I have to do short trips to the US and other countries relatively often for work reasons. I need a Canadian passport for my life to be easier, that's all. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:59am
Ok great, this is one of the reasons I heard here. So you want to wait 5 years for Canadian passport instead of getting a US visa after you landed Canada? Or maybe US will not give you visa because they think you will never return (which happens a lot with Canadians PR) which gives you no option but to wait for your Canadian passport. |
Posted By: montrealia
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:21am
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I have a multiple-entry US a visa that I use to visit the US. However, that's not the solution to the whole problem. The way I get treated by US customs is not the same as the way Canadians get treated. I have to wait longer, fill the I-94, answer stupid random questions, etc. I'm tired of that. I thought about applying NEXUS, but in the end I decided against because I don't know how this would look in the Canada citizen application. I want to clarify that I'm simply answering the question "what's the rush in getting Canadian citizenship?". The answer to the question "Why do you want Canadian citizenship?" is different: I want Canadian citizenship because I love this country and I want to live the rest of my life here. But the rush doesn't come from that, of course. |
Posted By: zigma99
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:26am
I hope you are aware that you can keep reusing the I-94 card till its expiry date (typically 3 to 6 months) Nexus card has no connection with the citizenship application, it is just a way to cross the border faster. Also, even Canadian citizens have to answer stupid random questions while crossing the border. Ask one of your friends and you'll find out. Cheers
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Posted By: bluejay
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:29am
You just proved my point that you are a troll. You use the big picture when it suits you and take apart figures of speech to make an argument.
People give you fair and honest explanations as to why they want citizenship and you dismiss and/or ridicule them. You're not a citizenship judge so spare us your condescending words.
Now having said that, you will probably come back at me with some fluff sentence that includes the words"intelligent conversations" or "serious debate", but that won't actually mean anything.
As I said before, you are allowed your opinion and we are allowed to have ours. But posting comments like yours on a citizenship discussion board is just pure non-sense. As much as I would love to use an analogy, I will refrain from it this time, because you will probably use it out of context and take it literally.
------------- Toronto (St. Clair) Sent: Aug.17'11| Received: Aug.19'11 | e-Cas: Sep.20'11| Letter: Oct.3'11 | In Process: Apr.10'12 | Transferred: May.4'12| Test: Oct.11'12 | Oath: Oct.26'12 |
Posted By: montrealia
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:34am
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Zigma99: I'm aware of the fact that I can reuse the I-94 sometimes, and I do this. Thanks. I'm sure that Canadians have to answer questions too, but I doubt they have to answer as many questions as I do. In any case, it's not clear that the questions will stop when I get the Canadian passport so I admit that this particular point may not be a good reason to rush. One thing is sure: when crossing the border by car, often Canadians don't even get stopped, they just wave the passport. I always have to stop and wait for 30 minutes to fill the stupid I-94 (I never had the chance to cross with an old I-94, so this may be different in this case). |
Posted By: zigma99
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:49am
| When I cross using the current I-94, I am also just waived through....no problems. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 11:57am
I have the worst passport that exists in the face of the earth and I never had any problems in 4 years of travel from Canada to US by car or by air. I dont surrender my I-94 and keep using it until it expire. When it is close to expire i return it on my way back to Canada or drop it at Canadian Customs office at Pearson Airport (done that twice). As far as flying to US, get a redress control # and use that for booking flights and you will never be asked anything. See the first few pages on this thread for the link. All these will solve your problems. |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 12:00pm
Thumbs up! |
Posted By: TheMan
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 12:01pm
You did not tel me why you compared apple with oranges? That I would like to know. I dont read lectures. |
Posted By: montrealia
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 12:04pm
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Zigma99: thanks. The Man: "I dont surrender my I-94 and keep using it until it expire. When it is close to expire i return it on my way back to Canada or drop it at Canadian Customs office at Pearson Airport (done that twice)." One time I did that at another airport that was my first port of entry into Canada. The following entry into the US they complain that what I did was wrong and I should have surrendered the I-94 to the airline. But OK, this is going off-topic. Thanks for the comments on the I-94, they are certainly useful. |