Sponsorship with criminal inadmissibility
Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Family Class Sponsorship
Forum Description: A review of current sponsorship programs (permanent residence) promoting the reunion in Canada of close relatives from abroad.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5469
Printed Date: 24 Apr 2024 at 5:00am
Topic: Sponsorship with criminal inadmissibility
Posted By: mpottier
Subject: Sponsorship with criminal inadmissibility
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 10:26pm
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Hello everyone from Seoul South Korea. I have a big interesting topic to present and questions to ask. Currently I am a Canadian living in Seoul, South Korea. I have been here for going on 4 years. Currently I have a common law spouse who I have been living with here since September 2009. She is American, not Korean. She has been here for about 3 years. We are both on Korean E2 Visas, which are for teachers of children and adults. She teaches at an elementary school , and I teach University classes. Nevertheless, I would like to sponsor her to come to Canada and live with me in the Autumn of this year (Sept-Nov 2011). Our relationship is genuine, and we have all the paper work for sponsorship eligibility lined up and ready to mail off to the office in Ontario. However, this is where is gets complicated, she has 2 DUI's on her record. One occurred almost 10 years ago when she was 19, and just made a stupid mistake, there was no dangerous driving, no bodily harm ,and no property damage. The second occurred in the spring 2009, much to her humiliation. She was coming home from dinner with family, and an officer pulled her over for a random check (which is legal in her state of Maine), and gave her a DUI because she had drinks with her dinner (which she had absently mind-idly forgot about). Once again there was no speeding/dangerous driving, no bodily harm, and no property damage. She always cooperated, and paid the fines promptly. Her licence is gone and she doesn't intend to get it back anytime soon (She is eligible to get it back this year with restrictions, and get it back with no restrictions next year). Also, she is originally from a border town in Maine, and she can literally see Canada from her house. In the summer of 2009 we visited her hometown, and went to the border to visit my family in Nova Scotia (we didn't know about the inadmissibility rules). They scanned her passport and her DUI from 10 years ago popped up. They took her to an isolation room, and questioned her ( I was not allowed to go with her). She obviously told them the truth and was very forthcoming and told them of the second DUI that didn't show up on their scan. However, she was denied entry and we were told to turn around (Thank god she lives 5 minutes from the border). They offered us no information on how she could enter Canada. Lastly, her second DUI does no appear on her criminal record, we don't really know why (it's been over 2 years), but the State of Maine said they don't always appear on your criminal record if there were no aggravating circumstances, it would just appear on you driving record. Anyway, we later learned we should have went to one of the major border crossings to get a Temporary resident permit (TRP) from a trained immigration official (the smaller crossing we went across was not equipped with immigration officers), and that with proper paper work she can get this TRP issued for up to 3 years in length (and it will allow her to get a student and open work visa if it is issued for longer than 6 months). Nevertheless, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these TRPs, and how difficult they are to get? My spouse has lived in Korea for 3 years, and the Korean government doesn't care about these types of infractions, and they certainly trust her with children. She has also traveled to Brazil, China ,and Europe with no problems, in fact they almost laugh when she brings it up (like we are wasting their time with this, they are looking for violent criminals or smugglers). The immigration website is extremely vague on this matter, and I have no idea what they mean when they say TRP's are issued on compassionate grounds (does that include us?). Also, some websites say they issue these rarely, but I have spoken to numerous lawyers who say they issue these things daily, with few being rejected. Also, I used Stats Canada and discovered they issue thousands of these TRP's a years for much worse crimes, including armed robbery, manslaughter, sexual assault, and 'terrorist acts'!? I also called immigration in Canada, and they sent me an e-mail, stating that they had to change the rules for TRP's because too many people were getting rejected from the USA. They actually created a clause that celebrities and musicians coming to Canada can get TRP's more easily!? (I still have this e-mail, and I will try and post it). Thanks to anyone who has any experience with this, we are going to apply for it either way, and we would rather not use lawyers since they charge way too much, and don't seem to offer any real advantage (in fact some lawyers told us to just try it by ourselves first). Thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: RobsLuv
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 10:40pm
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The first problem is that the only TRP application I've ever seen a link to on the CIC site is an extension ap to be used by someone already in Canada on a TRP. Maybe someone else knows where to find a link to an initial TRP application - I know there is such a thing cuz I was given paperwork of that sort to fill out at one time. But it came to us directly from the Minister's office. Second problem: regardless of how other countries feel about your wife's DUIs, no question they make her inadmissible to Canada. She is not even eligible to apply for rehabilitated status until sometime in 2014. So, for her to come to Canada, it looks like a TRP is the only option - she is not eligible for PR. And, yes, humanitarian and compassionate consideration could apply to the two of you. The real question is how to go about getting a TRP. I know they issue them sometimes at the border, and they issue them sometimes for people who are already in Canada and something happens that results in them being found inadmissible to Canada but there are sufficient H&C grounds to allow them to stay anyway. If you've been talking with Canadian immigration attorneys already, one of them should be able to tell you how to get your hands on a TRP ap . . . or what to do if it's not an option to just send in an application. ------------- 3/2007-applied 1/2008-Refused 12/2008-ADR failed 1/2010-Appeal allowed 4/2010-In Process(Again) 5/2010-request FBI/meds 8/2010-FBI recd 11/30/10-APPROVED! 1/31/11-LANDED! |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 11:05pm
| Thanks for the reply, Yes we found the actual application package. It is on the Websites of the Canadian embassy in the USA (it's also on the Canadian embassy in Seoul). The application itself is not that long, it's the supporting documents that are hefty. Also, American can apply for them directly at the port of entry, it is their right under NAFTA. However, no other country can. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 2:38am
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Ditto all that Robsluv said. Further observations: The second one is still quite recent. Perhaps too recent for H&C grounds to have sway. I do not know much about Maine and its criminal justice system other than the reports about the George W. Bush arrest record there for a DUI in the 70s. Perhaps they do have a lesser offense (a number of jurisdictions have been implementing these in recent years) which is not exactly the traditional "DUI" or "DWI" or variation thereof. That would make a difference. The exact record would need to be considered, and may require an attorney's analysis, in order to determine just what the conviction of record is for. If it is for a traditional DUI like offense, she is indeed inadmissible to Canada and will continue to be for some time, and given two convictions I believe that upon becoming eligible will actually have to apply for rehabilitation status in order to become admissible in the future. H&C relief may be available in the meantime, but, again, the more recent one is indeed probably too recent. Here's the rub: one DUI is not good, but is indeed the sort of mistake that many young people make and then overcome. Two DUIs is not a mistake. It is not a mere lapse in judgment. Definitely not a matter of overlooking having had wine with dinner. OK, for some, a very few, it might be. But authorities, and CIC and CBSA are among them, see this very differently. They know the odds (statistically somewhere between fifty and a hundred offenses committed for each one an offender gets caught for), they are well acquainted with the nature of the underlying problem, and they thus make inferences based on the probabilities, not the individual, but on what is indeed most likely. A second DUI says there is a problem. Simple as that. For lots of good reasons. Not something that it is at all easy to convince any authority to the contrary, and indeed any attempt to convince an authority to the contrary is likely to be interpreted as denial and as a lack of rehabilitation. The statistics, by the way, solidly back their approach in this. In the meantime, a Maine lawyer may be able to help (sometimes even a conviction can be, well, set aside, reduced, mitigated, or something; and at the least a consultation with a Maine attorney will inform her of what exactly the conviction of record is for). An immigration lawyer is a good idea in order to apply for rehabilitation status or assist in obtaining H&C relief and/or help with applying for a TRP. Yeah, that could be an uphill route and expensive. And, again, it may be too soon to do this anyway. She may need to put some miles and years of sobriety and being law-abiding behind her first. Yeah, DUI is a crime. And yeah, getting caught in the commission of criminal acts has consequences. And, yeah, it can take years to work one's way out of that imbroglio. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 6:03am
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Thanks for the reply. I can see how the officials may see it the way you have pointed out. But we have never owned a car and have lived overseas most of our adult lives, where we have never driven. In fact I have never seen her drive. Also of course she is extremely remorseful, and her experience working with children and her volunteer work must vouch that she is not some raging drunk. Nevertheless, Canada is the only country in the world with this on the books even the USA allows people in with DUI's (it's on their website as long as there are no aggravating circumstances), and issue them green cards. As for Maine, they are notoriously incompetent when it comes to record keeping, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just didn't bother. However, we have received the court dockets, and it just says "traffic misdemeanor, fine payed' for both instances. We have also received all the other documents needed form the website. I also called immigration and they suggested not to use a lawyer since the documentation is pretty straight forward and there is nothing a lawyer could do differently other than assist in the one personal letter or explanation. http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/washington/imm/inadmissible_tr-interdiction_rt.aspx?lang=eng - http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/washington/imm/inadmissible_tr-interdiction_rt.aspx?lang=eng I'm just curious as to how the stats point out people with much stronger criminal offences get issued TRP's (which have to be issued under the 5 year threshold). It has been 2 years since her last one, and we won't be coming to Canada until later this year or perhaps early 2012 if need be .Were not too worried about getting the PR, just a TRP which will allow her to work and live in Canada (which TRP's issued for longer than 6 months entail). Also in a worse case scenario I could get my green card for th USA, or we could just stay in South Korea (but we can't stay here forever) To be honest when I explain this to people they look at me in disbelief, and most Canadians don't know this happens. In fact travelers from the USA have cut in half since 2002/2003 since this law was enforced from 40 million to 20 million today. Most Americans are going else where. Since about a quarter of the American population have something on their records. Other countries don't have to worry about since they didn't sign an agreement with us to show an entire record from a passport. So tourists from Europe or Asia get in with ease. It's all very over-zealous and lopsided. Sorry I digress, Thanks for your thoughts :-)
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 1:57pm
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Not sure why you think that she would be given status that would allow her to work in Canada even if she were to successfully obtain a TRP allowing her to temporarily reside in Canada as your partner. I am not all that familiar with the TRP process but am familiar enough to have strong doubts about the prospects for obtaining such status. Otherwise I agree with (or at least understand) much of what you say ... except I do not really know about how other countries deal with foreign nationals having under the influence driving convictions ... and there are some details (like the suggestion to not use a lawyer) that I do not concur with. That said, Canada has indeed cracked down on this. Read the "important information" at the link you give. (It further emphasizes reasons why I think the prospects of obtaining even a TRP without a permit to work are not good.) I have been attending a local annual Blues Festival here just about every year for nearly a decade, and every year of late there is at least a couple groups who are stopped at the border and not allowed into Canada because of old misdemeanor convictions. Many of these are performers who had come to Canada many times in the past without a problem at the border, but who are abruptly seen as "inadmissible." But that is how it is, for entry purposes. That said, there are multiple facets in your partner's case. And in this context it is hard to believe, for example, that a person at CIC would suggest not seeing a lawyer. That, I believe, is not just bad advice but, I believe, is inappropriate. Just deciding what course to pursue in this situation is a matter in which a lawyer may be of much help. While I do not really know what the prospects are for a successful TRP application generally, in this situation, again, I suspect that they are NOT good.. Personally, in addition to a copy of the official court record (not just the docket entry) I would obtain the FBI certificate, and a State police certificate from Maine, and obtain a driving record from Maine, and engage in a consultation with a Canadian immigration lawyer familiar with the process to obtain rehabilitation status. What that most recent conviction was for really matters. The arrest record matters as much as the Court's records, but both matter. A consultation with a qualified lawyer would help to really clarify her situation. How you do that while abroad I am not sure. The FBI and State police certificates should illuminate what is really on her record; but a copy of the disposition in the court (which should show what the precise charge was, its disposition, whether or not probation was imposed, and if so whether completed, and date of final discharge from court's jurisdiction, and so on). She will need both certificates in order to apply for the TRP anyway. In many instances, the FBI and/or State certificates will not be clear about what is on the record, and in those instances the court record really needs to be examined (and, again, not just what is in the docket entry). It might be worthwhile to also obtain ... I forget ... CAIPS I think, but her immigration records with CBSA. Others here are much more familiar with how to obtain these records. They should reveal the nature of what is in her Canadian records relative to the attempted denied entry you refer to in an earlier post. All this information should be assessed/evaluated to determine whether or not she has a 2009 conviction which makes her inadmissible, or, in contrast, whether she may be eligible to obtain rehabilitation status. For that really is the key: if and when she can obtain rehab status. That is probably what she really wants to explore ... including the prospects for obtaining such status prior to the expiration of the technical minimum time based upon H & C grounds in the event the more recent charge is indeed one that constitutes a traditional DUI-like charge. It is my impression that protestations of remorse and in-fact rehabilitation (in contrast to simply a sufficient history of being law-abiding for the specified periods of time) do not weigh much. But in an application for rehab status relying on H&C grounds, they should be relevant and help (may even be necessary), but here again I think using a lawyer, to properly and persuasively make the case, is usually the better course. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 9:09pm
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Thanks again for the insight. You are correct about being stopped at the border and turned around. I have called the Border protection agency, since they are in charge of issuance of visas etc, at the border. They said while they can issue TRP's at the border (for Americans), they don't like doing it since it puts them on the spot, and they don't always have the proper information, so they recommended doing it at the Canadian embassy. However, some recent events suggest that famous or prominent people get them issued at the border, case in point Lindsay Lohan who was issued one at the Toronto airport, and she was going to a club! ( http://www.popcrunch.com/lindsay-lohan-banned-from-canada/ - http://www.popcrunch.com/lindsay-lohan-banned-from-canada/ ). We have also got a criminal record check from her state of Maine, and we have the FBI on the way. We went to the court house in her home town and got all the dockets and documents pertaining to her case. We also have letters of recommendations from her school principle and 3 prominent community members, including some Canadians (her grandmother is also Canadian). So we will have all the documents required when we apply for the TRP when I have officially sponsored her. As for the advice they gave us about not using or not endorsing using a lawyer, it is actually their policy since they have to treat every application the same no matter who does it. Again, it is on their website ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/representative/index.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/representative/index.asp ). Otherwise it would create a two tier system, one for people with a lot of money, and one for everyone else. Finally and probably most useful was the e-mail they sent me when I called immigration about TRP's. It took a couple of phone calls until I got an agent who really knew his stuff. This is the e-mail he sent me and I don't know why it is not on the immigration Canada website since it really explains everything (sorry for its length):
A *Temporary Resident Permit (TRP) is a document
proving that a special permission was given to someone who would normally not
be allowed to enter Canada or remain in the
country. Usually, people who are not allowed to enter Canada are refused entry to Canada. In some cases, if there is a compelling need for that person to
enter Canada and if that person
is not considered to be a danger to Canadian society, a TRP can be issued.
· A sick child coming to Canada for medical
treatments not available elsewhere. · A member of a music band who has criminal convictions and who is coming
to perform at a major concert in Canada. · A person who wants to enter Canada but cannot apply for rehabilitation because less than five years have
passed since the end of their criminal sentence.
Generally, Work Permits are job
specific. If you want to apply for a work permit, you need: ·
a Labour
Market Opinion (LMO) from Human Resources and Social
Development Canada; and ·
a job offer
from a specific employer. In some cases, work permits are not job specific, so no job offer or LMO
is needed. These types of permits are known as open work permits. As an exception, you can apply for an open work
permit if you: ·
have been recognized as a Convention Refugee or Protected Person by the
RPD; ·
have received
a negative decision on your refugee claim but the Government of Canada is not
yet ready to remove you from the country. In addition, you must be unable to pay for your
basic needs without working; ·
have applied
for permanent residence in Canada under one of the following categories and
your application has been *approved in principle: ·
Spouse or
common-law partner in Canada; ·
Live-in
caregiver; or ·
Humanitarian and compassionate grounds; ·
are a **family member of a person listed above; ·
have asked for refugee status in Canada and you are waiting for the
decision from the Refugee Protection Division (RPD). In addition, you must be
unable to pay for your basic needs without working; ·
have a Study Permit and you cannot pay for your basic needs without working for reasons that
are beyond your control; ·
have an unexecuted removal order against you and are unable to pay for
your basic needs without working; ·
have a Temporary Resident
Permit valid for at least
six months and you are unable to pay for your basic needs without working; ·
are the spouse or common-law partner of a skilled worker; ·
are the spouse or common-law partner of a foreign student (including the
spouse or common-law partner of a foreign student with a post graduate work
permit); ·
are working
as part of an exchange agreement, for
example: o participant in the Canada World Youth
Program; o participant in an international
student and young worker exchange program; o dependant of a foreign representative
or of military personnel; or o professional athlete who requires
other work to pay for their basic needs while playing for a Canadian team. * Approved in
principle means that you received a letter from the Case Processing Centre or
the local office stating that you are eligible to apply for permanent resident
status but that a final decision will not be made until all requirements for
becoming a permanent resident have been met. These requirements include medical,
security and background checks for you and, if applicable, your family members. ** A family member is a spouse, common-law partner, dependant child or
dependant child of a dependant child. The Internet links below will provide you with more detailed info Therefore she could apply for a TRP, then apply for a student or open work permit (as long as she is granted the TRP). Also note they had to allow athletes and musicians TRP access so Canada wouldn't become an artistic black hole. Also, he told me over the phone, that only some of the border crossings have immigration officials the others do not. If you go to these non-immigration crossings, your chances of success are very slim, since many of the guards are not trained for this kind of thing, and some are actually just students hired for the busy seasons, so they will just turn you around and avoid the problem. This is noted on the border services website: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/listing/indexpages/indextype15-e.html - http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/listing/indexpages/indextype15-e.html If the office has a IMM (immigration) abbreviation, then they are equipped to handle immigration issues (there are only about 3 between New Brunswick and Maine). Anyway, thanks for the insight everyone, keep them coming, I really appreciate it, every bit helps. I also hope this posted info can help others.
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Posted By: yukonjoe
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2011 at 12:23pm
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I'm almost in the same situation as your partner. I'm German, married since August 2008, convicted in Canada for DUI in February 2010 and deported to Germany in May 2010. I never filed for PR as I was in Canada, I went back and force across the border. To be with my wife in Canada again I sent an email to the embassy in Berlin, Germany and asked what I have to do to get back to Canada. I got the following answer: Dear Mr. , Thank you for your e-mail! Under Canada's Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, temporary residents and applicants for permanent residence in Canada may not be able to come to Canada if they have been involved in criminal activity. Temporary residents and applicants applying for permanent residence are considered to be criminally inadmissible if the person was convicted of an offence in Canada. For further information please refer to the following website: https://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cic.gc.ca%2Fenglish%2Fvisit%2Fconviction.asp - www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/conviction.asp You were convicted of or committed a criminal offence in Canada and may overcome this criminal inadmissibility by applying for a pardon. For further information, please refer to the National Parole Board website: https://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npb-cnlc.gc.ca%2Finfocntr%2Ffactsh%2Fpardon-eng.shtml - www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/infocntr/factsh/pardon-eng.shtml According to the information provided, you are not yet eligible to apply for a pardon. However, in special cases, the Minister can grant admission to inadmissible persons and issue a Temporary Resident Permit (TRP). Please note that this document is only issued if the reason for the applicant wishing to travel to Canada is sufficiently compelling to overcome the seriousness of the inadmissibility grounds. Should you intend to apply for a TRP in order to be reunited with your wife before you are eligible to apply for a pardon, please be advised that our office will only take an application for TRP into consideration, if you submit evidence, that your wife intends to live with you in Canada and has applied to sponsor you for permanent residence in the Family Class. For information on sponsorship applications in the Family Class, please refer to this website: https://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.canada.de - www.canada.de (Discover Canada \ Visa and Immigration \ For Non-Canadians who intend to >> permanently immigrate to Canada \ Family Class Immigration). Please note that your wife first has to apply for sponsorship in Canada. The sponsorship application will be processed by the Case Processing Centre (CPC) in Mississauga, Ontario. Once the sponsorship has been approved, your permanent residence application is sent to the appropriate Canadian visa office, i.e. Berlin. For information regarding the sponsorship process, please contact the Case Processing Centre (CPC) in Mississauga, Ontario: https://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cic.gc.ca%2Fenglish%2Fimmigrate%2Fsponsor%2Findex.asp - www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/index.asp Once your wife has applied for sponsorship, you may contact us again for further information on an application for a TRP. Please note that an application for a TRP does not guarantee a posititve decision and the issuance of a TRP, as each case is judged on its own merits. Best regards, Embassy of Canada | Ambassade du Canada | Botschaft von Kanada Immigration Section | Section de l'Immigration | Visa- und Einwanderungsabteilung https://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=347030&t=de1411593267.1296407566.5f6bc689&to=berlin-im-enquiry%40international.gc.ca - Berlin Citizenship and Immigration Canada | Citoyenneté et Immigration Canada Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada I hope their answer helps a bit. My wife is on social assistance, so she isn't eligible to sponsor me. We have to wait patiently that she get a job and bring then our application in. Let us know how things are going with that TRP. I wish you luck |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2011 at 6:59pm
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Wow, I can't believe they deported you?! I know that is the law in Canada, but as a Canadian myself, I don't agree with it. It is too harsh, and a waste of tax payers dollars. Anyway, I am not 100% sure, but I think your wife, if she is a full Canadian citizen can sponsor you even if she is on social assistance or unemployed. It is her right as a Canadian citizen to do this, only Canadian permanent residence have to be employed or have money to sponsor family members. I don't even live in Canada, and I can sponsor my common law, I just have to prove that I plan to return to Canada. I would contact immigration/embassy to double check. Good Luck!
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Posted By: scylla
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2011 at 7:19pm
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mpottier - If someone is unemployed, then can still sponsor a spouse. However if they are on social assistance or bankrupt - they can't. Same rules apply to both Canadian citizens and PRs. ------------- Outland Spousal (Buffalo): App recd: 05/28/2010 Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010 Processing started: 08/19/2010 Passport request: 10/01/2010 Landed: 10/05/2010 |
Posted By: sugahmonstah
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 12:49am
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^what he said ------------- Outland Sent 11/30/2010 Received Miss 12/2/2010 Sponsor approved 01/17/2011 Received Buffalo 01/26/2011 Applied for VR extension 03/14/2011 extension approved until MAY 2013!!! 05/09/2011 |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 2:19am
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Hello just an update. Our sponsorship was approved on March 1st, it only took a month! However, that is obviously only the first step, we are expecting the PR to be rejected unless some miracle occurs. Anyway, our PR application was sent here in Seoul, and oddly the processing time here is about half of what it would be in the USA. It is 6 months here, as opposed to 11 on average in the USA. I guess Korean have no real desire to go to Canada as immigrants. Anyway, we were advised to send in our TRP application now, so they can process it simultaneously with the PR. Thanks for the comments everyone!
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Posted By: tameme
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 3:48am
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hello everyone any insight or advice would greatly appreciated about my situation.
I just applied under H&C for my husband in the Philippines last sept. My husband just got a letter from immigration today informing him that they refused his application and that I the sponsor not allow to appeal. We have 2kids (the other one is a Canadian citizen)with me without him I wont be able to go back to school on August.
Any advice on what should I do?
Thank you in advance..
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Posted By: yukonjoe
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 11:47am
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@mpottier: Hey, that's great. So you're one step further. Sure, the PR application will be rejected, but they will hopefully give your wife a TRP. With your PR application they want to see that your relationship is genuine and that you're willing to sponsor her, also that you both want to settle in Canada. I think they will ask for your wifes court documents. In the meantime I would try to get the court records, maybe a transcript. Also good would be some letters of reference. Keeep us updated, cause I'm in the same situation as your wife... Good luck to you both! |
Posted By: Ralph M. Dzegniuk
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 3:41pm
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Generally speaking, as far as DUI's are concerned, TRP's are being issued without a problem to overcome the resultant criminal inadmissibility, as long as a solid reason for entering Canada during the period of inadmissibility is provided. Business-related reasons as well as family reunification reasons are usually good enough. Having said all that, every case turns on its own unique set of circumstances. Over the last 7 years, out of the 30 or so TRP/Rehab applications that I've filed for my clients (based not only on DUI's but also for much more serious criminal offences), only 2 were ever rejected (and one of them was approved on re-submittal).regards,
Ralph Dzegniuk, Barrister & Solicitor (B.A., L.L.B.)
Migration Law Chambers 82 Richmond Street East, Suite 305 Toronto, ON. M5C 1P1 Phone: (416) 548 9072 Fax: (416) 548 9092 mhtml:%7b9F1FC898-5817-46CA-8D72-B1FD7067FE05%7dmid://00000447/!x-usc:http://****/ - **** mhtml:%7b9F1FC898-5817-46CA-8D72-B1FD7067FE05%7dmid://00000447/!x-usc:mailto:[email protected] - [email protected] |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 8:12pm
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Thank you so much for the information, and I will certainly keep everyone updated. Actually we are almost ready to submit our TRP, we have all the documentation. Also on a side note, we just got her FBI check in the mail, and they have no criminal/arrest record for her at all, it's completely clean!? I called the FBI information number, and inquired, and the representative told me that DUIs are not usually recorded by the FBI because they are under state law, and they are usually misdemeanors, and his exact quote was "we have better things to do then record every DUI in America, we have rapists and serial killers to catch". He was a pretty interesting character, he also showed some disdain for Canada, because, he said ever since they started enforcing this zero tolerance policy for anyone with a record at the border, their office has been overflowing with FBI checks for people going to Canada. He actually said it was a waste of their time and resources/budget, and that Canadian law enforcement could easily tell if someone is dangerous or a threat through a streamlined interview or visa process. I don't think I have ever had such a frank response from a law enforcement agency before! Nevertheless, this will certainly help our application. |
Posted By: cor-32
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 10:40pm
Are they as understanding about a DUI, 11yrs ago, 10 since my licence was restored), if it is a SECOND conviction? First, from 1999 is a fraud charge? I only learned that it is a criminal offence in Canada a few months after me and family (wife Canadian) got here Thanks
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Ralph M. Dzegniuk wrote:Posted By: Ralph M. Dzegniuk
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 11:27am
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whenever dealing with more than one conviction, it is necessary to put a bit more work into the written submissions to convince them that, despite the appearances, there never was any "pattern of criminality." That is one of the key assessment criteria (albeit not the only one...there many others equally important).
Out of all the Rehab applications that I processed over the last 7 years for individuals with more than one conviction on their record, only one was ever refused. However, I'd like to think that this was due to the strength of the initial application package, written submissions and supporting documentation that we put together for our clients.
regards,
Ralph Dzegniuk, Barrister & Solicitor (B.A., L.L.B.)
Migration Law Chambers 82 Richmond Street East, Suite 305 Toronto, ON. M5C 1P1 Phone: (416) 548 9072 Fax: (416) 548 9092 http://www.%20migrate-2-canada.%20com - www. migrate-2-canada. com mhtml:%7b9F1FC898-5817-46CA-8D72-B1FD7067FE05%7dmid://00000049/!x-usc:mailto:[email protected] - [email protected] |
Posted By: cor-32
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 11:40am
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Thanks Ralph, unfortunately, i cant afford legal representation. (the catch 22 of not being able to work) I am getting references from Irish MP, medical professor, priest (not all irish clergy are monsters), and permission from the prosecuting detective from fraud charge to be contacted by CIC to vouch for me. There was a bad flood in the court document storage last year, so hopefully those records are safe, the court clerk is worried. My police clearance cert didnt mention the DUI, but i informed them regardless when extending my stay thanks again Ralph... Cormac
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Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 6:57pm
| We are certainly getting many reference letters. Since she is an elementary school teacher here in Korea (for 3 years), we have lots of teachers and principals giving her references, so hopefully that will work in her favour. |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 12:55am
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Wow, just another update after over a year. Well it took them about a year to process our initial PR application, no idea why, as the website says 8-9 months. Anyway, it was rejected as was expected, you would think for something so routine, they could come to a decision in a couple of weeks, as our application was pretty obvious. Also, just a side note, the amount of errors and typos in our refusal letter was shocking! How unprofessional, especially for delivery of such bad news. Anyway, we did apply for the TRP as I noted earlier in this forum, and they said they will let us know the outcome of this by around March 30th. So keep your fingers crossed. Also, they did give us the appeal form, if we should decide to file an appeal for the PR, but I am not sure we should bother since we applied for the TRP. Should we send off the appeal, is there any chance (neither of us are in Canada to show up to a hearing)? Any advice? Again many Thanks!
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Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 4:46pm
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I've had to become familiar with the TRP process due to my own peculiar situation (legally in Canada on a work permit, filed for PR in the Federal Skilled Worker category, issue in medical and a determination that even though I don't need treatment now, the potential cost of future treatment exceeded the threshold - about $61,000 over 10 years as of 1 December - and no amount of private insurance or opting out of BC medical - which is a legal option in BC although not most other provinces was enough, so I was denied. I'm now married to a Canadian citizen, in fact, and the visa office knew that, but you can't "switch categories".) With a finding of medical inadmissibility I have to worry each time I cross the border that I might be turned away. So I carry around all the paperwork for a POE TRP application now, including everything that's been filed on my original case (currently on appeal,) along with the new (spousal sponsored) application. The odds of obtaining a TRP for medical inadmissibility is vanishingly small - in 2010 they issued 175. In the world. What it takes to be successful is a compelling case. Spousal cases are the one category specifically called out in OP 20 and I've read elsewhere that "senior border officers are trained to permit TRPs in spousal cases in many circumstances." The fact you have options actually counts against your H&C application (you do have the option of going to the US together, for example.) At this point, you should have a decision on the TRP soon. Did you ever order a copy of your CAIPS/GSSM notes? If not, I'd suggest doing it (although you won't get them before the TRP decision at this point, it takes 5-6 weeks to get them.) Since you are not in Canada, you need to have someone IN CANADA request them. There are firms that will do so for a modest fee ($30 or so) and then forward them to you via e-mail. Those notes will give you greater insight into the decision making process. As for appeal, it would make sense to do so. Since you applied outland, you have a right of appeal to the IAD and they can also consider H&C grounds - and you'll have a TRP or the case notes for why a TRP wasn't issued. If you choose NOT to appeal, all the TRP gives your spouse is a tenuous right to remain in Canada. TRPs can be revoked at any time and they are not guaranteed to be renewable. So I suppose she can wait until she can complete rehabilitiation, but that means starting the PR process five years after final disposition of the case (which sounds like 2018 if she can get her license back in 2013, although I'm not entirely sure how CIC interprets the five year requirement here.) That's a long time to live with uncertainty like this. Were I in your shoes, I'd request an appeal. It will likely take you 18 months before they'll even schedule a hearing, and in the interim, you can work on the TRP. I would also suggest trying to find an attorney familiar with TRPs for criminal inadmissibility. There ARE people who specialize in this type of application - and you don't want someone without experience. I picked my attorney by looking at Federal Court decisions applicable to my circumstances and found one who had won his clients' case. That doesn't guarantee success, but it does mean the attorney is good enough to GET judicial review (which is NOT automatic and quite difficult to be successful - my personal estimate is that there's about a 4% chance of a judicial review being successful for the applicant. That's because ~20% of applications are accepted for review, and about 20% of cases reviewed are successful for the applicant.) Good luck. I hope it works out well for you. ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 9:22pm
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Thank our so much for your input, it is very helpful. I think I will put in the appeal, and at least start the process. Yes, I have heard that the medical inadmissibility is difficult to overcome, I am glad you managed to overcome it. Also, just note, with my spouse she would be eligible for rehabilitation around 2014 she got her licence back 3 months after her incident in 2009 (We misunderstood the original law). So a TRP can be issued long enough for her to later apply for "rehabilitation" under the TRP. I think you are right that we have options hurting our chances for appeal, but it should be noted that I cannot go to the USA to live as we are common law, and these relationships are not eligible for sponsorship in the US. Also, in order for an American to sponsor a spouse they must live in the USA and be employed in the USA. My spouse lives in Korea. We also don't mind living with a TRP, as it will allow her to work (ones issue for longer than 6 months can get work or student permits)., and even be entitled to some provincial services (healthcare etc). We live in Korea under a wok permit, and they too can be taken any time, so we are used to living under this type of threat. I myself have lived in a quite a few countries under a few different visas, and they always got renewed, usually these type of visas are not renewed if you break the law or something of that nature in-country. However, this is just my intuition. Again thank you so much for your input, it was very helpful. All the best.
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Posted By: Siouxie
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2012 at 2:00pm
A quick question for you. You said earlier that your partners Grandmother is Canadian - was your partner's parent born in Canada or if born outside, did they apply for citizenship at any point? Could your partner's parent possibly be a Canadian citizen and not realise it? If you go to this website (below) you may be able to ascertain if your partner's parent is Canadian - and depending on when your partner was born (and the rules in force at that time) find out if there is any possibility that she could apply to be a Canadian Citizen herself, thus overcoming the inadmissibility problem and as a bonus you wouldn't have to sponsor her! Just thinking outside the box :) http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/facts/lost.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/facts/lost.asp People born between 1941 and 1977 - ...born outside Canada to a Canadian parent in the first generation born abroad. Citizenship is automatic and retroactive to the date of loss or the date of birth, depending on the situation. All individuals who were Canadian citizens at the time the law came into effect will keep their citizenship.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/faq/citizenship/index.asp#rules - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/faq/citizenship/index.asp#rules
My children were born before April 17, 2009, in the second generation outside Canada, but I haven’t yet applied for their proof of citizenship (also called citizenship certificate). Now that the new law is in effect, does this mean that they are not Canadian? No. Anyone who was a citizen when the law came into force will keep their citizenship, regardless of the generation in which they were born, and regardless of whether they were ever issued a proof of citizenship. You can apply for a proof of citizenship for your child at any time, from inside or outside Canada. Find out more about how to apply for I was born in the second generation outside Canada and will turn 28 after April 17, 2009. Do I still need to take steps to retain my Canadian citizenship before my 28th birthday? No. Everyone who was a citizen when the law came into force will keep their citizenship, even if they were born in the second or subsequent generations outside Canada. The new citizenship law eliminates the need for those born outside Canada in the second or subsequent generations to retain their citizenship. However, if someone who was born in the second generation outside Canada turned 28 before April 17, 2009, and did not take steps to retain their citizenship, they are no longer considered a citizen as of their 28th birthday. The new law will not restore their citizenship. People who ceased to be Canadian citizens can apply to resume their Canadian citizenship. "Am I a Canadian Citizen" http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules-citizenship.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules-citizenship.asp ------------- This is only my opinion... CIC are a law unto themselves |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2012 at 11:11pm
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Yes I have looked into that and unfortunately, both her parents are from the USA, only her Grandmother is a Canadian citizen (On her fathers side). That also points out another flaw in the Canadian system, most countries in the world have some sort of grandfather clause to allow you to live in you ancestral country. For example if you have at least one parent or grandparent born in the UK or Ireland you can apply for a residence visa. The same goes with most European countries. Here in Korea you just have to have a Korean name and they will automatically give you an open residence visa! All of these visas have few if any inadmissibility clauses. The problem with Canada is that there are too few visas. If you can't get a PR, then you have few options or you have to combine visas, it's absurd. Here in Korea, there are dozens of visas, the PR is barely used, because people are happy enough to be able to work and be with family, renewing a visa every couple of years is not a problem. I still can't get over how harsh the Canadian system is. As a Canadian I am embarrassed. Also, just an interesting side note, my spouse is from a part of Maine that used to be part of Canada over 150 years ago. Canada relinquished it to the States after the Aroostook War. If she had been born a century earlier, she would have been Canadian.
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Posted By: Siouxie
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 2:22am
But Canada does have Citizenship by decent! If you have a Grandparent or Parent born in Canada, provided you fall within the law at the time of your birth or the 2009 Citizenship law, then you can claim Citizenship! If you read the links I posted, it explains it. If her Father's Mother (her Grandmother) was born in Canada and is therefore automatically a Canadian Citizen her Father will almost certainly be a Canadian Citizen even if he has not applied for Citizenship, and even if he was born and lives in the US. (First Generation born outside Canada). http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules.asp Your partner would then possibly be able to claim citizenship despite the fact that she was also born in the US. (Second generation born outside Canada). Have you checked where her Father was born? If he was born in Canada and then moved to the US your partner would be Canadian automatically. (First generation born outside Canada). Please look into it again, if there is even a chance I am correct it would save you a lot of troubles for very little time - just do the "Am I a Canadian Citizen" quiz once for her Father and then once for her... if I am wrong I apologise, if I am correct then you are in a great position! :)
------------- This is only my opinion... CIC are a law unto themselves |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 2:33am
| Her father was born in the USA, and unfortunately when we took the citizenship quiz with her info and she didn't qualify. Even if she did, it would take years for her to get granted this, which is far too long for us to wait. I guess that is another problem with the Canadian system, everything takes forever. It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't take a year to do the simplest task. A PR should take a few weeks or a month if everything is in order. As it does in most other countries. |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 3:11am
| PS. The new law introduced in 2009, limits the citizenship by decent to one generation born outside of Canada, so her father may be able to get it, but he would not be able to pass it on to her :-( They said it was to not devalue Canadian citizenship, which in my opinion is a joke, Canada is nice but not THAT nice, we are not living in a Utopia here. This just hurts regular people who have no desire to live in Canada for economic or financial gain, but to simply be with their families. |
Posted By: Siouxie
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 6:46am
Have you actually tried the quiz for her Father? Have you read the relevant sections I pointed out to you? If your girlfriend puts her Father's details in, as I have suggested, she can ascertain if HE is entitled to Canadian Citizenship - which, if born to a Canadian Citizen he should be.
My children were born before April 17, 2009, in the second generation outside Canada, but I haven’t yet applied for their proof of citizenship (also called citizenship certificate). Now that the new law is in effect, does this mean that they are not Canadian? No. Anyone who was a citizen when the law came into force will keep their citizenship, regardless of the generation in which they were born, and regardless of whether they were ever issued a proof of citizenship. You can apply for a proof of citizenship for your child at any time, from inside or outside Canada. If she then does the quiz, knowing that her Father is a Canadian Citizen, she may find a different result to that which you have stated.
I already did the quiz on both of their behalves, assuming that her Father was born outside of Canada after 1947 but before 1973 and provided his Mother didn't rescind her Citizenship, he should be entitled to Canadian Citizenship by decent (1st generation born outside Canada). When I input the hypothetical details in for your girlfriend - assuming that she was under 28 in 2009 - and with the knowledge that her Father should be entitled to Canadian Citizenship, she should also be entitled to Canadian Citizenship by decent. (2nd generation born outside Canada). The Act is very specific and I spent a lot of time reading up on it prior to posting. As to your comment about it taking years - if she can offer proof (birth certificates etc) it should not take that long, certainly under a year. If she has to apply for Criminal Rehabilitation it will take much longer, it seems that she may not even be able to apply for it (if her 2nd DUI is counted) for several years yet. The choice is yours, of course, but if I were in your position I would be jumping all over this possibility. Good luck to you both and I hope it works out for you.
------------- This is only my opinion... CIC are a law unto themselves |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 7:28am
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Hmmmm, I think a call to immigration is in order. I was under the impression that if her father was not a citizen at the time of her birth, then she couldn't get it. But if he becomes a citizen retro actively, then it could be possible. We were always answering the question about her parents being Canadian at the time of her birth with 'No', so we got a negative answer. So basically if you are born before 2009 (which is most people) you could go back multiple generations, as long as you have the birth records and are alive? Thanks for the info, we will seriously look into this. You wouldn't happen to know if you an apply for all these citizneships simultaneously, or would her father have to apply first and then her?
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Posted By: launched
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 8:34pm
| I have been reading this thread and we are going through something similar. My husband had a DUI in Texas in july 2004, we got married in may 2006, we applied for his resident visa in september 2009. The FBI report did not show the DUI but since he had it, we ordered texan criminal records and sent them with our application. He as was deemed rehabilitated in nov 2011, now we are waiting for the visa office to approve the sponsorship and let us know if we need an ARC. It has been a long road, I moved with him to south america for the last 4 years and I cannot wait to go back to canada. I wish you all the luck and may you resolve your situation soon. God Bless. |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 12:35am
| It sounds like you are on your way. May I ask why didn't apply for a TRP? |
Posted By: launched
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 8:52am
| Our story is complicated, he is a venezuelan national who went to school in the US, but asked for refugee status in canada. so he was in canada already and he had to go when they didn't accept his claim. So it was better for us to go the resident visa way. |
Posted By: joejoejoe00
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 6:12pm
| hey, i have been reading this thread too with much interest. I'm British and will be married to my Canadian Fiancée in August. We would like for me to move there with her in Canada. I have a DUI from Jan 2010. Applying for a TRP sounds like a very possible option after reading this as well as some other threads. However we would also require me to be able to work while I have this TRP. What would you recommend to apply for a TRP and obtaining a permit to work for this situation? |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 3:38am
This is so recent it is going to be problematic. This will probably delay your capacity to come to Canada for a few more years. Probably best to consult with a qualified, licensed solicitor/lawyer. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 3:45am
| I respectfully disagree depenabill. It happened almost 2.5 years ago (if not longer as convictions can come long after the event itself), how is that recent? A TRP which can be issused for up to 3 years,falls into the realm of waiting to apply for "rehabilitation". If he waited any longer, it would be five years and he could apply for rehabilitation, and the problem would be solved. Lawyers are usefull, but extremely expensive, what's the point of coming to Canada if your savings are wiped out and you have to start from scratch. One Lawyer actually qouted me over 3000$ to do a TRP!!? If the first attempt fails, then a Lawyer may be necessary. This is just my humble opnion. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:04am
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Foremost: notwithstanding the claims made earlier in this thread by an attorney, I am fairly sure that the issuance of a TRP to an individual who is criminally inadmissible is an exception to the rule, not the rule. It may be a fairly common exception, but even the email you copied into this topic over a year ago illustrates that only a fairly narrow range of individuals are even considered for TRPs, and I'd venture that of those considered the actual grant of the TRP is still the exception. That said, it is true, I do not know in particular how lenient CIC is about issuing TRPs to people who are criminally inadmissible, and sure, applying gives a person some odds whereas not applying has zero odds, but overall Canadian immigration is generally not particularly open to facilitating the entry of Foreign Nationals who are criminally inadmissible. This government, in particular, seems to have escalated both scrutiny and enforcement. With exceptions. Some of those are obvious. Famous actors for example. Despite, again, the claims made by a lawyer earlier in this topic, it is my impression that the burden for obtaining a TRP by someone who is criminally inadmissible is rather high. That said, even that lawyer attributed his claims of success to
But, for sure, I do not have any direct experience with how these applications are processed, so, my opinion is just my opinion. I am certain, however, that a qualified lawyer should be able to assess an individual's particular circumstances and offer a far more informative opinion as to that individual's chances, and to facilitate the preparation and submission of an application best presenting reasons why it should be granted. Expensive, yes, and still a gamble. But I am quite sure that if a person who is criminally inadmissible wants status to enter or remain in Canada, a strong initial application package, with well-written submissions and supporting documentation, is imperative. To be clear, however, a DUI conviction (ordinarily; may vary depending on the particulars in the respective jurisdiction where it occurred) translates to an indictable offence in the Canadian system. A conviction for what would be an indictable offence, if committed in Canada, makes a Foreign National inadmissible for five years minimum . . . and that inadmissibility runs from the date all proceedings were concluded, including the final termination of any probation imposed, not from the date of conviction itself let alone the date the offence occurred. The vast majority of indicators are that Canada enforces its inadmissibility policy fairly strictly with, of course, the usual exceptions. Major world-class personalities get a pass, the affluent get a pass (with a lawyer's help), and political or diplomatic persons get a pass; the drummer with a DUI and with a not-so-famous band coming to play at our annual Blues Fest in the summer, does not get a pass. But you are right, mpottier, if joejoejoe00 got pinched in Jan 2010, the conviction itself may not have taken place until much later. Jan 2010 is recent, by the way, as in there are many years left of inadmissibility. But again, the date the five years of inadmissibility run from will be some date after the conviction, the date that all sentence conditions are satisfied and jurisdiction is terminated (usually the ending date of probation). So, for sure, for purposes of Canada's inadmissibility policies, a DUI in Jan 2010 is recent and it is quite likely that it will take years before joejoejoe00 will be allowed to come to Canada to live. How about your partner: did you not begin paperwork applying for status for your partner in late January 2011? and am I right, that she is still not allowed into Canada . . . relative to a DUI that occurred nearly a year earlier than joejoejoe00's? You indicated that you thought you would get the results of the application for a TRP a month ago (by end of March). No results yet? Obviously the results your partner gets will be additional information relative to how this might go in at least one instance. So please do keep us informed. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 6:00am
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Thanks for the information, and I have done similar research as yourself, and we will certainly keep everyone posted as to the result of our application. I have also gone one step further and researched the statistics as too how many TRP's are issued, and I have also consulted with Lawyers in the family (for free). These numbers and advice from lawyers shows that MINOR criminal inadmissability (ie DUI, petty theft etc), are issued TRPs more commonly, obvioulsy it is never automatic, but not uncommon. However TRP's for medical inadmissability, and serious criminality (crimes with long prison sentences for example) are almost impossible. It should also be mentioned that fame, or wealth do not influence decisions. Martha Stewart is a good example, since she had to apply twice, because she did serious prison time. I have seen my fair share of minor musicians or regular people who get in (some with Lawyers, some without). Also, the current government is rethinking the inadmissability laws, as they are some of the harshest in the world. It is basically like asking the 4 million Canadians who are not in Canada at any given time to ask for record checks from anyone they intend to date or fall in love with, it's absurd. Furthermore, tourist numbers have fallen by almost half since 2003, when these laws really started to be enforced, and it's not because people get rejected at the border, but because they don't bother to risk coming at all, choosing other destinations instead, who wants to be told they are a criminal and dangerous on vacation. It might take a long time, but just automatically rejecting people without interviewing them or at least personally evaluating them is draconion. People are willing to go through a longer process if it means they can see their husband or wife, and get PR. Lastly, I guess it helps us that my spouse is American. Americans are entitled under the NAFTA agreement to get TRP's at the border (as long as they have the required paper work). My spouse is from a border town, so going to the border could be a daily event if need be (that is extreme though). It also helps our case that my spouse doesn't live in the USA, but a foreign country, and has travelled extensively. Korea has harsh punishment for crimes commited in Korea, but outside of Korea, they don't consider it their business (unless it is terrorosm or something of the like). The fact that she lives in a foreign country and respects the laws and culture here shows she is quite responsible, she is also a kindergarten and elementary school teacher, so saying she is dangerous to the Canadian public is bizarre since she is responsible for the safety of children everyday. However with that said, we will have to wait and see, Canadian immigration officers live in a different world, and the embassy here in Seoul has a reputation for incompetence and unhelpfulness. Anyway, on a final note. Yes we were told in writing that a decision would be made on March 30th, we are still waiting for our TRP result. I actually went down to the embassy during their whopping 2 hours of operation a day, and the receptionist told me that it must be still being processed and that she would forward my inquiry. I asked why they didn't respond to my e-mails or why it might be taking longer. She said they are very busy and resources are limited and e-mails are rarely answered. I found this hard to believe since I was the only person there, in a huge room designed for hundreds of applicants (and it has been like that every time I have ever gone there). So we will just have to wait and see :-( Thanks for the insights, it's very much appreciated! I am very glad that this thread is becoming so useful for so many people. I have gotten tons of messages with people in the same situation. This is obviously a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Ultimately canada is hurtung it's own citizens by denying even simple entry to spouses or family members. What are we going to do just divorcee or split from our spouses!?
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 6:24pm
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Some additional general observations: -- I usually focus, in this forum, on the what-it-is side of things, although I will occasionally venture into policy or the-way-it-should-be side. It is OK to talk about both, but I think it is important to keep these separate in analyzing or discussing what a person might expect or what the process is. -- What is common is very often not at all the usual. Many diseases are "common" but, fortunately, most of us do not have to worry much about them. The point here is that just because TRPs may be "commonly" granted, does not mean, not at all, that one can expect to be granted one. For those who are criminally inadmissible I believe the odds are against being granted a TRP except in limited situations, based on special circumstances. -- Not all celebrities, or world-class (actors, athletes, scientists, artists), will get a pass, that is true. But they have far better odds than most Foreign Nationals all other things being equal. And, usually, the TRPs given are, again, for a limited, special purpose, such as a particular event in Canada. An observation more about sponsoring a partner who is criminally inadmissible -- An observation more about sponsoring a partner who is criminally inadmissible due to a misdemeanor level offence that is nonetheless an offence which if committed in Canada would be an indictable offence (remembering that if an offence in Canada can be prosecuted either as a summary offence or as an indictable offence, for immigration purposes it is an indictable offence, and this applies even if overwhelmingly it is ordinarily prosecuted as a summary offence in Canada . . . if it is possible to prosecute it as an indictable offence in Canada, for immigration purposes it is an indictable offence). The Foreign National is criminally inadmissible for five years following the termination of all criminal court jurisdiction (again, usually the termination date of probation). This individual will be rejected when they apply for PR status for so long as they are inadmissible (and I think what their status is on the day of applying matters . . . not a good idea to apply a week before obtaining rehabilitation status for example). I do not know for sure, and this is something that, again, I believe it is far better to employ the services of a qualified solicitor/lawyer for, but I believe the best course of action is as follows: -- make sure a significant amount of time has elapsed since the occurrence itself giving rise to inadmissibility -- make sure that in addition to getting that time passed, the person has done those things which will show an in-fact rehabilitation . . . clean record, good record, positive activities showing that whatever that event was about is no longer an aspect of the person's life -- only then apply for the sponsored PR; expect a rejection -- appeal the rejection and make a strong case that despite technically being inadmissible that the application for sponsored partner PR should be granted on H & C grounds The longer one waits to do this, the better. That said, if it is getting close to the five year time period elapsing, why not wait it out even longer and not have to deal with the rejected application and appeal and so on. Using a lawyer to help with the appeal, especially one based on H & C grounds, is highly recommended. Persuasiveness looms very, very large in this process. Lawyers have experience with what is persuasive and what is not. The rest of us can oft times be surprised by how a bureaucracy reacts to this or that . . . the result can oft times be the opposite of what we thought it would be. Lawyers will have been there and done that and seen how it goes. Here is the rub: I am not sure, but I have the strong sense that if there is no application for sponsored PR pending, a TRP is far less likely to be granted. I think it is an uphill struggle even with the PR application pending (unless the applicant is already in Canada and living with the sponsoring partner). But if there is no PR application pending, while I am not at all sure, it is my impression that the odds of getting the TRP are not at all good. I also believe that once a sponsored partner PR application has been made and rejected because the applicant is criminally inadmissible, the only recourse is to appeal or to wait until rehabilitation status is obtained before applying again. If there is no appeal or otherwise the rejection of the PR application becomes final, the matter has been in effect heard and decided. CIC will not ordinarily reconsider its previous final decisions. It is a version of what is called, in judicial applications, res judicata. The only avenue for reconsideration is the appeal process. Bottom-line, I am afraid, is that if a PR application has been made, rejected, and is final, the likelihood of getting a TRP is remote (again, please let us know if your experience is otherwise), and the Foreign National is not likely to be allowed into Canada (to "live" in Canada anyway; short visits are easier to obtain authorization for, though usually, again, a particular purpose for the short visit is required) until rehabilitated status is obtained. Note: I am not altogether sure of these things. This is not a straight-forward area of immigration law. A lawyer's help can make a big difference, all the difference in fact. Sure, a lawyer's help is not needed for the vast, vast majority of procedures and applications handled by CIC. CIC has millions of clients and just in terms of the applications it handles, I am not sure, but I think it is at least a million new applications every year (nearly a half million in PR and citizenship applications alone). Dealing with criminal inadmissibility, however, gets into more complicated areas, and again, it gets into areas in which persuasiveness looms very large, which is more than being about just the technicalities, but even as to the technicalities, when it comes to issues related to criminal inadmissibility the technicalities also get complicated. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 8:38pm
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I agree with everything you said, I am just a little confused, as I mentioned that the statistics for TRP's granted to people who are inadmissable and who also have a family class sponsorship in process is quite high. Yes people who are just coming as tourists are not given them as much. The percentage for sponsorship TRP's granted for people with minor offences is somewhere in the 70-80% range (maybe more as my math is not so great). These statistics are available on immigration's website and stats Canada. These stats also show that TRP's are granted for long periods just as much as short ones, again having a sponsroship PR in process/processed is the key difference. That is why TRP's are given the 3 year maximum validity, and also given the option of multiple re-entry if granted by an immigration official. Also TRP's can be renewed, so officials can grant them for shorter periods to give people more time to 'prove themselves' then they can apply for an extension. This is mentioned in the TRP handbook given to immigration officials (I made the painstaking effort to read this book, as it is available on line). I fully endorse using a lawyer, but unfortunately this can fall well outside the possiblity for many people. We will certainly look in to getting one if our TRP is rejected, and we are looking into it for our appeal. Also, it should be noted that there are a few lawsuits in process for situations you mentioned. If celebrities and rich people get granted TRP's more commonly that regular folk, then there is bias in the system, which violates the law. I am not hugely familiar with these current lawsuits against the government, I just heard about them from lawyer friends, but it would be interesting to see the results. Thanks again for your insights.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:40pm
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Just to be clear about the resources I am familiar with relative to these issues, the sources I rely upon to a large extent, and which may be of interest to anyone evaluating whether or not to apply for a TRP, allow me to link to those sources upfront: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op20-eng.pdf - OP 20 "Temporary Resident Permits http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op11-eng.pdf - OP 11 regarding Temporary Residents generally http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/index.asp - CIC website page regarding inadmissibility generally http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/permits.asp - CIC web page (with links) regarding Temporary resident permts generally http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob389.asp - February Operational Bulletin 389 http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip01-eng.pdf - IP 1 Temporary Resident Permits It is worth noting, as you have previously alluded to, there is some effort underway at CIC to mitigate the harsh impact of its policies regarding inadmissibility as it affects those who have a single conviction for what might be described as a "minor" offence, noting though that I not seen CIC documentation referring to "minor" offences per se. In any event, this is illustrated by the Operational Bulletin 389, issued barely two months ago (linked above). This appears to be addressing the impact of inadmissibility on one-time offenders who received no term of imprisonment as part of the sentence imposed. One might generically refer to these as "minor" offences, but, again, that is not language I have seen CIC use. This is rather new, however, and so how it practically fits into the matrix of qualifying for and being granted a TRP is not yet that clear. The operational bulletin just issued in late February, it might be noted, http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob389.asp - OB 389 , is substantively only about a fee waiver but which is clearly intended to facilitate easier grants of TRPs to this class of FN who is technically inadmissible (as I recall it may even refer to a single DUI conviction as an example).
Not really. That is, just because high profile persons get permission/authority to enter Canada more often than Foreign Nationals generally with the same underlying reason for inadmissibility does not necessarily mean it is due to bias. It is, I would infer, more about the particular circumstances such individuals are in and the nature of the reason for their visit to Canada, than it is any bias in favour of such individuals per se. For a world-class artist or actor or athlete, for example, who has been invited to participate in a function of significant cultural importance, there is obviously a relatively compelling reason to allow them into Canada for that function. Other factors, like the risks involved, can be and probably are routinely analyzed in similar ways. In other words, it is not that they are rich or famous that gets them into Canada despite some technical criminal inadmissibility, it is that such individuals are more likely to be in circumstances which entail compelling factors in their favour. (And may have relevance in other factors considered in the granting of a TRP.) Even then, though, the TRPs granted, so far as I understand it, are fairly narrow in scope, limiting the visit to Canada in a rather restrictive sense, including in particular the duration of the allowed visit. But, of course, each individual situation presents its own pros and cons and issues and so on, and thus is very dependent on the individual, the reason, the context, and other details. (Part of why it is so difficult to get a read on the nature and scope of who gets a TRP, when, why, and so on, is that the TRP process covers a huge range of reasons for entry into Canada . . . some for very temporary reasons . . . some involving long term residence and even including work permits and such, with all sorts of variations in between . . . some TRP's, for example, automatically result in a grant of Permanent Resident status when the time is completed. But CIC does not do much to sort one from the other for those of us who are mere laypersons trying to grasp what is available, what isn't, and so on . . . and of course this is part of why I emphasize that a lawyer's assistance can be important in this area. And of course I recognize that competent legal assistance is, indeed, beyond the means of many, which is just one more aspect of how much those who are not affluent, let alone those who are outright poor, are at a disadvantage in so many ways in the world as it is.)
I do not know the statistics regarding TRP applications. Nor do I know what 70-80 percent of what the statistic you refer to is really about . . . I am of course interested in where, precisely (link would be great) such information/statistics can be found. It sounds like in your particular case you have appealed the rejected PR application. That, I think, is indeed a critically necessary aspect in keeping hope for the TRP alive. In contrast to the suggestion of CIC efforts to mitigate the impact of CIC's policies toward inadmissibility relative to certain offences, "minor" offences one might say (though again, the term "minor" is perhaps a misnomer or could be misleading), the aplicable operational manual ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip01-eng.pdf - IP 1 Temporary Resident Permits ) and the general CIC online information generally says that a TRP is a "document that is only issued in exceptional cases." The other operational manual that covers this subject is, again, http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op20-eng.pdf - OP 20 Temporary Resident Permits , where the language is not the same but is similar. Perhaps I put too much emphasis on the in exceptional cases aspect. I do not really know how exceptional a case must be. Obviously, if around three out of four applications are granted, that does not sound as if it is limited to "exceptional" circumstances. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:20pm
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Thanks for the information dpenabill. You actually beat me to the punch when it came to the new laws affecting TRP's I was just about to post it! It doesn't really affect people in PR situations, but it does a show an initial easing of the entry laws for Canada, here is a link again for anyone who may be interested. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob389.asp Here is also a Newspaper article from the States, discussing the reason for the change of heart and what it might mean for the future. http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/140403093.html You are right dpenabill, the language of exceptional circumstances is quite vague. From what I have been told by lawyers and immigration Canada, is that family unification or visitation is one of them. You have situations like Lindsay Lohan being granted a TRP for a few weeks so she could attend and help with a club/bar opening (certainly nothing dire), and she was on probation for multiple offenses and served jail time. Exceptional circumstances is certainly in the eye of the beholder. As for the statistics, I apologize, only the total granted TRPs given out each year is on the website (which could be for a multitude of reasons). I actually had to request more detailed information from stats Canada to get the number, and they just sent me a hard copy, so I will try and upload it, but I will have to scan it first :-/ As I said I am not a statistician so my number is a rough guess when it comes getting a number for TRP's granted to family class sponsorships with inadmissibility. Thanks! |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 8:09pm
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Hey I read this article and thought it showed some valuable information about TRP's , this was in the news today. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/01/pol-conrad-black-canadian-permit.html Those not familiar with Conrad Black, he renounced his Canadian citizenship, which is rare in its own right, but he also just served years in prison in the USA for fraud, and a few other offenses. This article also give some good stats on the amount of TRP's issued every year. The immigration minster says they issue around 10,000 a year, and about 6,600 of these are for people with minor offenses, and around 907 are for major offenses (they define this as violent offenses), the others are for everything else. Conrad Black was a issued a year long TRP, because his wife is Canadian. He obviously had a team of lawyers working on his case, but he hasn't even been released from prison yet!? This article also sheds light on the possible double standard in this system. Very Interesting. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 12:37am
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I also saw and read the CBC article. My wife gets worked up about stories like this (she does not want DUI offenders allowed into Canada either . . . she has a strict and I'd say unrealistically black & white perception of what and who is criminal and should not be allowed into Canada), and she gets especially worked up about someone like Black who was a Canadian citizen, by birth, and renounced it. But, anyway, I suppose I should allow that there is more of a double standard than I have wanted to admit there is. The citation to statistics in the CBS article is interesting: they are purportedly quotes taken from Kenney, including a follow-up on Twitter by Kenney. More interesting is the language Kenney used in Parliament itself regarding Douglas Gary Freeman. Telling. Whatever the facts. The use of a pejorative attribution in that context is, well, as I said, "telling." One can easily conjure many pejorative appellations for Conrad Black. Leading back to the double standard: discretion is an important tool necessary to the efficient and just functioning in many governing contexts, and yet it is also extremely vulnerable to abuse. Those who study and analyze and offer informed guidance about standards of discretion emphasize how important it is to have structured guidelines and clearly articulable criteria. The TRP system, in contrast, appears to offer only vague standards applied based on general criteria with not much consistency or continuity required. A little scary actually. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 6:01am
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Good news all!! We FINALLY got our TRP issued! hooray! They sent us an e-mail with the attached documents. They issued her a full 3 year visa! Very good news we are elated. They also mentioned that she can apply for a study or work permit upon arrival. I just wanted to thank everyone who gave their thoughts, experiences, and ideas on this forum. It was very helpful and let us get through this difficult time. I also hope this forum gives others hope for the future, and show that it can be done ( and in my case with no legal aid or immigration consultants). Cheers!
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 10:35am
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Good news, clearly. The nature of the obstacles posed and difficulties involved in overcoming them is a lesson in many respects, ranging from the consequences which arise from even momentary lapses in judgment, to the avenues available to compensate and recover from the impact. (A just society must have processes for rehabilitation and the recognition of rehabilitation, and make this reasonably attainable including the incorporation of allowances relative to the nature and severity of the underlying lapse in judgment to begin with.) You can hope this will lead to a favourable decision on H&C grounds in the sponsored partner PR application appeal and it will not take three full years to attain landed status. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 26 May 2012 at 12:44pm
| I had a quick question. I sent in my TRP and got backs letter around the 7 of march saying my application is being processed. I have a traffic citation for retail theft and a dismissed possession charge. It is now 3 months since they have started the processing, when should I expect to recieve the TRP? |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 26 May 2012 at 1:06pm
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A traffic citation for retail theft? The timeline question, nonetheless, is when should you expect to receive a decision on your application for a TRP. Could be granted. Might be denied. Whether or not you can expect to be given a TRP depends on many factors in addition to the particulars of why you are inadmissible, although of course why you are inadmissible constitutes a large part of the decision-making criteria. Either way, the timeline too will vary considerably depending on many factors particular to the specific individual, including the reason for which a TRP is being sought. Not sure, but it is my impression that the timeline varies so considerably that it is very difficult to predict, and probably impossible to predict given the minimal information posted here. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 26 May 2012 at 1:29pm
| I got a dismissed charge in 2007 and the non traffic citation for the retail theft happened feb of 2010. The retail theft was a non traffic citation which is less than a misdemeanor all I had to do was pay a fine. I have a long term gf in Ontario.. I was stopped this time last year and denied because of that. I got all the paperwork needed for TRP and submitted and got received there march 7. I requested for a year TRP for multiple entry because I have a full time job here in the states and just want to be able to visit my gf and her family on weekends and holidays. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 26 May 2012 at 2:15pm
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Overall: if you have used the services of a licensed attorney, that attorney is the better source of information regarding this. And, generally, since these things are tied to a range of technicalities and they vary so considerably from one person, one situation, to the next, a lawyer is indeed a far better source of information and opinion regarding this stuff. In any event -- To be frank: those do not appear to be offences for which you would be inadmissible. I assume you are inadmissible, however, so . . . well, the details matter (a dismissed charge should have no impact on admissibility for example; and an infraction should not make you inadmissible either), but assuming that whatever the technicalities are, they are relatively minor offences, the details likely have some impact on the timeline and whether or not the TRP will be granted, but for purposes of a forum like this, it is not feasible to predict, with any degree of probability, that timeline or even the outcome. (Again, a lawyer should be able to evaluate better and offer more.) Just because the retail theft was prosecuted on a citation, it might be noted, does not necessarily mean it was not at least a misdemeanor. Less than a misdemeanor in most U.S. States is called an "infraction," and is not ordinarily considered a criminal offence under Canadian immigration, so far as I understand these things. But many states do provide for the prosecution of some misdemeanors by cititation . . . and a misdemeanor theft in the states is indeed considered an indictable offence for purposes of Canadian immigration (even though it can be, and usually is, prosecuted as a summary offence in Canada, since it technically can be prosecuted as either a summary or indictable offence, for immigration purposes it is an indictable offence). All that said, your ties to a significant other in Canada may be part of the matrix underlying the decision to not allow you entry into Canada the last time. So this could affect how long the TRP application takes and it could affect what the decision is. In any event, as I said, the timeline for a decision on a TRP varies considerably and is very difficult to predict. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 2:32am
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Yes Depenabill is correct. In my experience in talking with immigration officials here in Korea and in the USA and Canada, is that TRP's take 2-3 months to process, sometimes less. So I find it unusual that they are taking this long to process yours, I would expect some kind of response soon. It also should be noted that the Canadian government just recently closed a few consulates in the USA, including the large processing centre in Buffalo New York, so that could be reason for the delay, as they are moving all files to the New York City office (there is no way to be sure of this though). Our TRP was supposed to take one month, but it ended up being over two, and no reason was given. Once again it shoulud be noted that Americans can get these issued at the border, and this should have been told to you at the border (but they often 'neglect' to mention it), as long as you have all the documents required. However, this is a risky endevour as they don't like issuing them for long periods right at the border, and it could result in being turned away. Yet if you live close to Canada, and to a large border crossing (the smaller ones rarely have trained imigration officials), it could be worth a visit. as for inadmissablitly, pretty much anything that shows up on your record can get you banned from Canada. In the letters sent to me by immigration Canada only simple speeding tickets or jaywalking etc etc are exempted. Shoplifting, tax evasion, DUI's etc etc CAN be crimes in Canada and they ban people based on the maximum possible sentence that COULD have been issued to you had the incident took place IN Canada. Case in point DUI's can get you five years in prison in Canada, so they ban people from Canada with DUI's. However this almost never happens in Canada. My father who worked for over 30 years within the Dept of Justice in Nova Scotia had never once witnessed someone getting 5 YEARS in prison for a DUI or even multiple DUI's. There was a man in my hometown with 149 traffic crimes on his record and served only house arrest, for a few months. In the past 5 months in my home town 3 police officers were given DUI's and they are still on the force after a suspension. Lastly, just an intersting story, a woman I met here in Korea who was originally from Saudi Arabia was banned from Canada as a student/researcher because she drove a car in Saudi Arabia, where it is illegal for women to drive. You might think, that since this is not an illegal action in Canada she would be admitted with no problem. However, unjust laws or over-zealous systems rarely advertise their absurdity, and her 'criminal' record stated she had a reckless/careless driving conviction, which banned her from Canada, simply for driving a car!. While she could have proven this to Canadian officials as being a false charge, the process would have taken months or even years to process with no guarantees, so she gave up and now attends university in Korea. I think this highlights the major flaw in the immigration system in Canada, it's not that people are being turned away in vast numbers at the border, it's that they don't bother to come at all in order to avoid the embarrassment of being labeled dangerous to the Canadian people. This is not a good example to be setting.
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Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 10:38am
| They seemed me inadmissable because of the reta theft. I sent in an application for rehabilitating they sent it back to me with a letter stating that I needed to apply for TRP so I did. With just personal experience in this forum and maybe others what is an avg time span? Like could I possibly not hear back for another 6 months? |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 10:48am
| Thank you so much for your response mpottier. It has taken me so long to get this all together. All I want to do is visit my gf in Canada. I provided a letter from her, her mother, and a respective Canadian as well statin I am no risk and have done so much to prove that it was a dumb 1 time mistake. I also provided a letter from my employer stating all of the good things I have done there. I also included all of my awards I recieved in high school a well as both my high shook diploma and my degree I recieved. Now with all of that being said, I live in NJ so it's about 7 hrs to the border so I don't want to get there and be denied and asked why I tried to come in when I have a processing application at the NYC consulate. Now my gf is graduating on June 14, I obviously won't be able to go unless a miracle happens and I get a letter back within the next 2 weeks but with everything I have dealt with the past year I can't help but feel a little discouraged. What is your advice that I do? I was planning on waiting till the end of June to hear something. Should I risk it then and go to the border? My gfs family has a huge family reunion in july and I don't want to miss it... She is an angel for still being with me. |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 1:48pm
According to Seattle, the processing time for TRPs is 3-6 months for them. This is what it said in the AOR for my own application (which was medical, not criminal):
Did you at least receive an AOR with a file number? That makes it easy to order GCMS notes (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/index.asp) which will tell you the status of your case. ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 2:06pm
| I did recieve letter stating my application was received on march 1 and stats the file number is stated above. |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 11:17pm
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Then it's time to pull your GCMS notes. That will give you a much better idea of how things are proceeding with respect to your application (it certainly did for my application, and I've been able to confirm that they received all the documents I sent to them) Did you submit a police clearance certificate (FBI report) with your application? Any materials from the court regarding the disposition of this matter? Any other supporting materials? All of those things would be factors. You can ALSO send in a case specific enquiry via the CIC website; they probably won't tell you anything, but after 3 months (so this Friday) it's not unreasonable to ask about the progress of your application. ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 8:25am
| Yea I sent everything. FBI records and court documents stayin the dismissmal charge and then th other court document stating it was only a non-traffic citation and the fine was paid and everything. The piece of paper stated of anything was missing they would've sent everything back (which I had sent in the criminal rehabilition application in 2 times prior and the first they sent it back saying what I was missing and the second time said I needed to send in TRP application, so that's what I did and got that sheet stating that and to not contact the consulate for processing times and they gave me my file number) now what exactly is GCMS notes? |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 9:11am
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GCMS = "Global Case Management System". This is the electronic record of actions the visa office has taken with respect to your application. I linked to the form earlier. They DO have to be requested by someone in Canada, so you would need to give someone permission to request your file and pay the $5 fee. There are also commercial services that will do this if you prefer (and they can assist in interpreting the results.) You get the answer back 30 days after you request it (and from what I've seen, you get the answer that is 30 days old at that point - ergo, they collect the notes and then forward them to you 30 days later. Its a bit odd, honestly, but I find the information within them useful.) Did your letter state what the processing time would be? ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 9:29am
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This is what they stated, "this refers to your application for temporary resident permit which was received by this office on 1 march 2012. Your file number is quoted above. You must quote this file number in any communication with this office. As these are complex cases, there are no guaranteed processing times. We do not respond to requests for status inquiries as our resources are dedicated to the processing and finalization of applications. Please be advised that incomplete applications will be returned and that we keep no record of having recovered any application that is incomplete" |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 11:17am
If the possession charge is reflected in the FBI record as "dismissed," what follows is not relevant. That charge should be irrelevant to your admissibility to Canada and should be mostly irrelevant to the processing of your application for a TRP. If the possession charge reflected in the FBI record shows any disposition other than "dismissed" or does not reflect a definitive disposition, the following may be relevant: You are posting in a somewhat texting style, not formal, so I am not sure if you meant:
Could make a significant difference depending on which it is. Many U.S. States allow for one sort or another procedure pursuant to which certain types of criminal charges may be held in abeyance for a certain amount of time and/or subject to certain conditions (sometimes but not always similar to probabtion even if not necessarily formal probation), in which cases it may be said the charge is "stayed," most of which are done pending dismissal. The formalities of such procedures vary from state to state (and sometimes from court to court within a state). Many require a guilty plea which is not accepted by the court, but rather held by the court for a time pending the formal dismissal of the charge. What matters, for that charge, is that there is a final order dismissing the charge. If the record reflects anything other than a formal, definitive dismissal, it can be problematic (which actually can be more problematic than a simple conviction would be). So, the first thing to look at in this regard is the FBI record: if it does not definitively reflect that the charge was dismissed, then you need to look at the court records and determine if they definitively state that the charge is dismissed. Something indicating that the charge is to be dismissed is not good enough. Some state courts can be very sloppy about following up with these sorts of things. I do not have a clue if this is an issue complicating the processing of your app for a TRP or not . . . but if it is not very clear in the record that the 2007 charge is definitively dismissed, this could be one of snags. The more likely snag has to do with the reason for seeking a TRP, and in particular, perhaps, not a strong enough reason to show a need for coming to Canada. To some extent the reasons for granting a TRP are based on H&C like needs or interests. See mpottier's example: there is a qualified relationship within the family class pursuant to which the policy of uniting families plays a significant role. You, in contrast, are not in a qualified relationship with a Canadian, so that policy is not relevant. Moreover, in contrast, while you are not in a qualified relationship with a Canadian, you are in a significant relationship with a Canadian, so there are recognized indicators of ties which might be a motive to stay longer in Canada than a mere visit. These are not easily quantified factors, but are more or less factors assessed in overall context. Nothing to be done at this stage that will accomplish anything other than what waiting for the outcome will accomplish. Trying to dissect the process further is largely if not entirely guess work . . . at best it is guess work. You just need to be patient. You could get an answer tomorrow . . . or not for awhile. And the answer could be . . . what you want or not. You just have to wait and see. Note: you can obtain your GCMS records but at this stage I suspect that you are not going to learn much more than what you already know. There is very, very broad discretion to grant or to deny a TRP (compare Conrad Black to scores of others who have been denied), and you are not likely to find anything in your FOSS or GCMS records that will enlighten you as to how they will choose to exercise discretion in your case. . . . That said, if there is a specific concern about whether or not your intentions are to "visit" Canada as opposed to stay in Canada (because you are in a significant relationship with a Canadian), some notation of that should show up in the FOSS or GCMS (GCMS records should include FOSS). ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 11:48am
| The FBI record does show that it was a dismissed charge so that does not concern me, that doesn't count I just included that because it is on there so Id share all of the information. The retail theft is what is making me inadmissable. Now how is my relationship with a Canadian, I have been with for over a year and a half and plan on marrying soon does not count on H&C grounds? Both her and her mother wrote letters which I included in the TRP application they want me in Canada for special events? Now I didn't know what I was doing at the beginning of this... And have done this all myself. Was there an easier way I could've done this? |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 2:21pm
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I do not know how the various factors are considered in the whole. I do know that, for example, a Foreign National (that would be you) is more likely to get a favourable TRP decision the stronger there are positive reasons why Canada should allow the person into Canada. The policy for uniting families is a strong reason of this sort. That, however, involves a "qualified relationship" . . . which a prospective relationship is not. (Unlike the U.S., which recognizes and gives status to fiances for example.) Legitimate reasons to visit (which includes to visit close friends, including a boyfriend/girlfriend) are, probably, positive reasons, but even if the weight such reasons are given could be quantified (I don't think they can be quantified however), I don't know how much weight such a reason carries . . . except to say, again, it is a lot less than the policy that underlies the unification of family members in qualified relationships. How much less? Do not know. Probably varies. In contrast to that, there could be (not saying there is) a concern about an intent to stay rather than merely visit. This definitely varies from person to person depending on a range of other factors, with the strength of your ties in the U.S. factoring into this. Again, I do not know if this is a concern. (Note: Foreign Nationals from many parts of the world face difficulty in just getting a visa to visit Canada if they have a close relationship with a Canadian, even though they have no criminal inadmissibility at all, because of the concern they might stay.) But if there is some reason why your application for the TRP has been delayed, I suspect the snag is somewhere in the area of why you are seeking a TRP, why you want to come to Canada, and whether those reasons are sufficient to overcome your inadmissibility. The various factors are considered together and a CIC officer balances the interests involved and exercises his or her discretion, which again is very broad, in deciding whether or not to issue the TRP. But it could be something else altogether, like a referral for a background check in Canada (since, I take it, you have spent time in Canada previously). Hard to say what it actually is, but, mostly all you can do now is wait and see. TRPs are not routine processes. Many people do, apparently, do them without the assistance of a lawyer. I would not (and I am trained in the law) but that is largely because I could afford a lawyer. For most, what matters is the reason for inadmissibility balanced against reasons for allowing entry and other circumstances, which most people can probably put together about as well as a lawyer would for them. That said, there are often pitfalls in these procedures and a lawyer helps to avoid those. Probably would not have made much if any of a difference for you . . . it is just a matter of what the deciding officer decides. And for that, you just need to be patient. Most likely it will not be an extraordinary long time. Just seems that way while you are waiting. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 2:31pm
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It "doesn't count" because you aren't family class. If you were already married (or common-law), then your TRP application would be included with your sponsorship application and likely granted because the nature of your crime is not significant when weighed against the goals of family reunification (ergo, as far as H&C grounds go.) Otherwise, right now you look like someone dating a Canadian. You've already shown a disrespect for the rules and thus there would be a concern that you would overstay your time in Canada. TRPs are entirely discretionary and difficult to obtain (in my category - medical inadmissibility - they issue fewer than 200 per year across all missions.) For my case, I found the GCMS notes valuable: the comments at the end told me that the visa office understood the basis for my request (in Canada legally on a work permit, denied under FSW as medically inadmissible, simultaneously requesting review and reapplying in the sponsored family class - the comments said:
My second set of notes indicated they had received the additional materials I forwarded (the review application and a copy of the completed FC PR application.) As of the end of April, they still hadn't even started processing my application (which was received in early February, so over 2.5 months later.) Having read (and re-read) OP 20, I know there's quite a lot of consultation work that has to be done in managing TRPs (at least those similar to my own.) Good luck! ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 3:46pm
| Thank you all for your feedback! I really appreciate it. I have taken these factors in the the officer might think I would want to stay and made it clear in letters of reference and my own explanation it is just for visiting and asked for a TRP for a year for multi-entry on the weekends so they know my want to be in Canada is only temporary |
Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 4:28am
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Yes certainly patience is a virtue when it comes to Canadian immigration, they do little in a productive or efficient manner. As the others have suggested, you can attempt to contact them after the 3 month period, however, they do not always respond.. They will basically only contact you if there is missing information or they need to talk to you in person. In my opinion I would expect an answer relatively soon. I think the only down side is that it is your girlfriend and not spouse or common law, but it sounds like you have strong ties to the USA, so that works in your favour. The only other thing, immigration may consider is that you and your girlfriend are conjugal partners, but can't be together due to certain circumstances, but I am not as familiar with those cases. Overall, just wait and see, do your best to contact the embassy, and if this attempt fails look into getting legal advice. It also it should be noted that for these types of cases, they issue the TRP via e-mail, so when they do make a decision you get it pretty quickly (at least in our case). All the best
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Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 29 May 2012 at 11:41am
| Thank you so much for the advice! Yes the waiting patience game it is after a year... Just got to wait and see thank you all for the input. The consulate actually does not have my email or phone number just y address that's how I got the letter confirming my application ID number, hopefully that doesn't mean anything bad! |
Posted By: xprecious32
Date Posted: 30 May 2012 at 10:05pm
| I am a Canadian Citizen and would like to sponsor my spouse(married May 19 2012) We've been in a long distance relationship for almost 4 years now and just got married. We've been visiting each other about once a month. We both have children from previous marriages. I've researched the whole spousal sponsorship thing and collected and filled out the appropriate forms to sponsor him. The question is can he be sponsored because of criminal record. He was living and working in Canada on a work permit. While here in 2007 his wife(now his ex-wife) at the time had him charged with assault. He was found guilty and given a conditional discharge with one year probation. With that said, according to the CIC website, for inadmissabilty he has to be "convicted" of a crime. Now I'm no lawyer, but after extensive research, a conditional discharge is not a criminal "conviction". The conditional discharge would be removed off his record 3 years after his probation was succesfully completed. So this I'm thinking shouldn't affect him, but I'm not entirely sure. In 2005 his wife at the time had him charged in the USA twice within 4 days with Assault & Battery, and was arrested, but then she dismissed these charges. We have filled for his FBI check, unsure of what will show up. Will these charges make him inadmissable and unable to sponsor. The reason I am asking is because these things showed up one time when he tried to cross the border to visit me. Luckily he had his Canadian paperwork and they let him in. The next time he tried, his arrests from the USA showed up and they refused him entry, because he had no proof. He went back to the border with proof and they let him through. This has been a bettle for 3 years, they hall him in, question him, go over his papers and then let him through. If it's such a hassle at the border, what's the whole immigration process going to be like. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Kim. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 1:11am
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I do not know how Canadian criminal records work, so I have nothing to offer about that one. For the U.S. -- First things first: get the FBI report and see what it says. If it fails to clearly show that the U.S. charges were dismissed: Courts can be sloppy about submitting dispositions, so sometimes the arrest shows up in the NCIC which is then what is reflected in the FBI report, but there's no disposition. For crossing the border, court documents showing the disposition resulting in no conviction works, usually. And indeed, I would expect that to work in making the sponsorship PR application as well -- submitting a certified copy of the official court disposition showing the charges were dismissed, and these could be included as part of the explanation in response to the item that asks about arrests or charges and such. That should do it, making sure to reveal the arrest/charges and to affirmatively state they were dismissed giving the details of the dismissal: court and date at minimum, but best to include a copy of official court papers showing the disposition. You hope, though, that the FBI record does show the disposition, and does so correctly: "dismissed" (or some equivalent). This should suffice. Still disclose the arrest/charge and in the explanation clearly state that the charges were dismissed. Regardless of doing what needs to be done for purposes of the PR application, if the FBI record does not clearly show the disposition as dismissed, that should probably get fixed. I do not know how to do that. I would hire a lawyer to do it (cause I can afford to), but I suspect that so long as you have or can obtain certified copies of the disposition showing the charges dismissed it should not be that difficult to do on your own . . . probably some information about how to do this at the FBI site. Either way, expect this history to trigger some additional background checks and a bit of a delay compared to most applicants. Should not be problematic in the long-term but it is the sort of thing that CIC will want to look into some, and that tends to take a little extra time. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: xprecious32
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 10:06am
| Ok Thanks. I guess all we can do is wait for the FBI Check. And in the meantime, I guess we can try to get the dispostions from court. Although I'm not entirely sure it even went to court. But we'll try anyway. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 31 May 2012 at 3:08pm
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If there was an arrest, there needs to be some disposition. CBSA is usually fairly tough about charges made and not resolved. That, in their view, means the matter is still pending, and that can be problematic. If there is no formal disposition affirming the dismissal of the charges, a person should be able to apply to the appropriate court and obtain a formal ruling that the charges were dismissed. If there is no formal disposition affirming that the charges are dismissed that could be problematic. Best to consult a lawyer in that case. All that said: Maybe the charges will not even appear in the FBI report. In that event you will almost certainly need a State issued police clearance/certificate . . . and, frankly, I would go ahead and apply to get that sooner rather than later as well. And where to go then similarly depends on what that certificate displays. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: Ivan0110
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2012 at 11:06pm
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Hi, I was deported from Canada over common assault (bar fight) back in 2009 (probation finished Nov 2011) and I would appreciate any advice on what's the fastest and most reliable way to reunite with my family? I have two minor kids that are now with my wife. What are my chances of obtaining TRP while my spousal PR application is still in process? How does it work? Do I also need ARC and at what point do I request ARC? I'm not sure in what order do I submit these applications? Please advise.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2012 at 4:52pm
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Ivan0110: A lawyer could better respond. What is likely to succeed, and how to get there, is not too complicated but complicated enough that a lawyer's help is best for this. I believe there are other aspects of your history and circumstances which are important as well, and it would be better to review these with a licensed solicitor, in a confidential setting. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: Nervereck
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2012 at 5:05pm
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Hi Everyone, This forum has been very interesting but I am still in the dark regarding DUIs. I am Canadian, married to an American for now 1 1/2 year and we have a 9 month old baby. We all live in the States. I am not a good candidate for a green card due to misrep and two denied entrance in the States (or it would cost LOTS of money to try). So I made the decision of overstaying my "visitor's" time and we filled for immigration in Dec-11. My husband got arrested for a DWAI (Driving while alcohol impaired) in Aug-10 and we did send the rehab form and all the court documents. I got approved as his sponsor in Feb-12 and now my husband is being ask to Seattle for an interview in Aug-12. He is being asked to bring his passport and our daughter's birth certificate (she is now a dual citizen). According to this thread of info, he should have been refused altogether. So why are they asking us to come for the interview? It sounds like they are concern more with the bb's credential than his DUI. Any comment on this situation?
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Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 2:14am
| If I understand you correctly, your husband is applying for PR for Canada. While they usually deny it outright if the infraction took place within the last 5 years, they will ask for interviews if their is some confusion or clarification needed on the status of your realationship, or the status of a child. I am not totally 100% sure though. In our case we had no interview for my American spouse coming to Canada, because they had no problem with our realationship status, it was the infraction that caused the problem. However, in order for the TRP to be issued they need to be sure your realationship is genuine etc etc, just as they would a PR. This is only my opinion. |
Posted By: Nervereck
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 9:37am
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I am the Canadian sponsor and my husband is american and applying for PR. Our baby was born 2 months before we sent the application, so we didn't have much documents for her than. But in the mean time she got her certificate of Canadian citizenship and her American passport. So we should just expect a big refusal for PR after our trip to Seattle? When do we file for a TRP? Can you work with that type of permit?
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Posted By: mpottier
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2012 at 10:02am
| I don't know if you should expect a refusal, but it is good to prepare for the worst. We applied for our TRP after I was approved to sponsor my American spouse. Therefore I would do it now and quote your file number from your PR application , so they know why you are applying for a TRP. If your PR is rejected, they will process your TRP, and will maybe grant it a month or so after your PR rejection ( this time varies). Under a TRP that is issued for longer than six months you can apply for an open work permit when your husband arrives in canada, this usually only takes a few weeks and is pretty routine. He can also get a study permit if he wishes to study for longer than six months at a canadian university/college if he is granted a TRP. Usually for spouses in your,situation they will grant it for longer tha six months. In the case of my spouse they gave her a 3 year TRP, and her situation sounds similar to yours minus the child. |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 10:52pm
| Hi all, just a little update. I still have not recieved my TRP from the new York consulate so I am going to take my chances at the border next week. I have a round trip flight into the Toronto islands airport Friday and leaving Sunday. I will bring my letter from the Consulate stating tey are processing my TRP as well as an affidavit from y girlfriend explaining how important it is for me to attend her family reunion (that is why I am going) I also will bring a copy of the court documents that I submitted to the consulate as well as my business card to prove I am employed. I am hoping that since I have all of this and my TRP has currently been processing for over 4 months they will give me the TRP just for the weekend. Any thoughts? Thanks! |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 11:19am
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Have you obtained GCMS notes on your TRP application? If so, bring those as well. If not, it's too late to do so (and the border officer can pull them up with the AOR letter from NYC if she/he wants.) Don't forget to take the completed TRP application along with you (and the $200 application fee). I'd probably also bring along a copy of OP 20 ("Temporary Resident Permits") and make sure you know WHY you are eligible based upon those rules. It sounds like you've got a reasonable chance at being successful. Good luck! ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 12:08pm
| I already paid $200 to the consulate, so I am going to bring y receipt from the consulate as well as the paper the consulate sent me stating that my application is being processed. Should I bring another application? |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 3:56pm
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Yes, you need to think of the POE application as a SEPARATE application - the POE officer won't have access to the file you submitted to the visa office. You can certainly show them your receipt, but be prepared to pay the fee again (in which case you can ask for a refund from the visa office). In other words, be prepared to submit a complete application at the border. Have copies of everything you might require. You might get away with less, but if you COUNT on getting away with less you may not have enough to make them happy. ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |
Posted By: Jsurf0826
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 4:48pm
| Yea I have copies of everything I sent to the consulate, I am going to bring everything. I just don't have the original copies of FBI report and conviction report, so hopefully the copies will suffice? |
Posted By: akella
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 5:17pm
| There is currently a thread on reddit, where a CBSA officer answers questions. I've seen a bit on TRPs and DUI convictions there. It's still live, so you may want to ask your questions. Link - http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/w4hvr/iama_canada_border_services_agent_at_a_major/ - http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/w4hvr/iama_canada_border_services_agent_at_a_major/ |
Posted By: computergeek
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 10:07am
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I thought the answer was illuminating at worth preserving in this thread. Here's the question:
and the answer:
The person answering the question claims to be a CBSA officer at a Canadian airport with 10 years experience. ------------- FSW applied 6/09, denied (med inadmissible) 12/11. JR leave granted 7/12, discontinued 9/12. Spousal app PPR 9/12. Landed 13 October 2012 |