730 day rule
Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Preserving Permanent Residence Status
Forum Description: How long can a permanent resident remain outside of Canada? Commentaries on preserving permanent residence.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3799
Printed Date: 24 Apr 2024 at 1:52pm
Topic: 730 day rule
Posted By: annexdan11
Subject: 730 day rule
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2010 at 10:59pm
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Hello;
I became a landed immigrant in Feb 2006. I left Canada for personal reasons and did not fulfill the 730 day requirement (i.e. the first five years expire in Feb 2011, and I don't have enough days left until then to sum up 730).
I understand that I have now lost the ability to renew my resident card in Feb 2011; however, I also understand I can still enter Canada, since the card is still valid.
Now, what I was thinking of doing was to enter Canada, and testify (is this in front of some sort of judge, CIC, someone else?) that I let the residency expire on purpose, and somehow formally surrender it... This way the case would be closed and I would be clear to apply again in the future if I thought it necessary.
Any advice on this? Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 12:29am
There is a process for surrendering PR status. It can be done at a POE.
You do not say how much time you have actually spent in Canada to date. I gather it is minimal and thus you fall way short, not just somewhat short, of the 730 day requirement.
The 730 residency requirement to maintain PR status is not a hard and fast rule. Moreover, there are many reports of PRs returning to Canada with a valid PR card without being questioned about meeting the residency requirement. I am not sure what will trigger a residency examination at a POE, but if you are not examined, you enter and your PR status is intact. Of course you cannot renew the PR card without meeting the residency requirement, but you do not need to have a current or valid PR card in possession while living in Canada.
In other words, if you really intend to settle in and live permanently in Canada, your most direct route would be to return to Canada sooner rather than later, and there is (it appears from most reports) a very good chance you will be allowed entry without being examined as to meeting the residency requirement. Once in Canada, you use your current PR card to get necessary documents like a drivers license, health card, and SIN if you do not already have one, and then the fact that your PR card expires long before you will be able to renew it will only preclude you from re-entering Canada if you travel abroad. You can remain in Canada, work in Canada, and once you have been here two years you can renew the PR card, and after three years apply for citizenship. Obviously whether or not that is something you want to do depends on how seriously you want to truly be a permanent resident of Canada, as opposed to having the status of a Permanent Resident (the latter is a matter of status, the former is about where a person really lives).
How obvious an absence from Canada for more than three years is on the face of your passport may or may not be a consideration in how likely they are to conduct a residency examination at the time you seek to enter Canada.
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Posted By: annexdan11
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 8:19am
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Thanks for your reply!
I spent about a year there, so roughly half of the 730 days (I have the exact number in my PC at home)... There is about half year left until Feb 2011, so if i went there today, I'd fail the requirement by about half a year or 7 months.
I guess my question is, how would they know whether or not I met the 730 day rule at all? they only know when I entered the country, not when I left.
Thks again.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 8:03pm
They may or may not know, they may or may not notice. Actually, they do not have "to know," since the burden is on you to show you have met the residency requirement. If there is something about your record or passport or anything that triggers some question, then they conduct "an examination" which really means they ask you questions about your residency. Misrepresentations at that stage, if caught, can only make things much, much worse.
But as I said in my first post, the odds are that if you entered Canada soon they would not conduct an examination. The odds. No guarantees. They might. They probably would not. Depends. And the closer you get to the fifth anniversary of your landing before trying to enter, the more likely some suspicion will arise and a residency examination conducted.
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 9:22pm
I think you would only find out if you return to Canada, CBSA may or may not write you up for non-compliance,depends on the border services officer.
IF you want to attempt to save your PR status you should immediately return to Canada, but if you renounce it from abroad by writing to Canadian embassy,surrendering your PR Card etc, then it will be over.
Note though, that the FSW class is no longer the easy way to migrate, its gotten very tough/restricted now....so think hard before you decide. If you lose it, don't regret in the future.
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Posted By: annexdan11
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 9:44pm
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Got it, thanks.
But once I re-enter (assuming no issues at the POE), I won't be able to renew my card without them asking... My guess is I'd be kicked out once the card expires in Feb of next year and I try to renew it.
The other thing is just to tell them I left a week ago, or something like that, but that seems kind of outright wrong.
...
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Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 9:51pm
No, if you pass through POE without issues, simple make sure you apply for renewal AFTER 2 years.
Because CIC goes from 5 years from the date you apply for renewal, so you can wait to qualify and then apply. During that time you should find work, build your residential ties, etc
Only thing is you should not leave the country for some time until you get it renewed
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Posted By: annexdan11
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2010 at 12:05am
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Understood. What if I did say in the entry form that I only left a week or two before?
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Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2010 at 12:37am
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That will be misrepresentation, you should always be honest and you will be worry-free.
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Posted By: annexdan11
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2010 at 1:00am
Posted By: wonderer
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 2:55pm
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i have similar concern, but my case is little different.
i became permanent resident in 2007. technically I could meet my residency status if i live in canada until 2012 august. and i will have all together 730 +16 days in 5 years mark. actually i have 5 years 1 months and few days time on my PR card.
now i am in canada but i need to go overseas for 7 days, which i can deduct from 16 days and after coming back spending 7 days overseas, if i dont go out of country again until 2012, i could meet 730 days without trouble.
could you please advice me on it. am i right in doing my math?
there is another 1095 days stay requirement, that i could not meet, becuse i have spent more than 1095 days outside canada after getting my PR.
I went to Immigration office to ask this and they mention about 730 days requirement and i was told its safe to go according to math. they did not mention about 1095 days.
Could you please advice on this too. will it be safe for me to go out of Canada for 7 days.
Regards
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Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 6:37pm
You should be ok as per CIC, as long as you meet the 730 days requirement.
The 1095 day requirement is for citizenship eligibility.
See below on the link and read:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp#time - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp#time
Hope this helps
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Posted By: wonderer
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 7:38pm
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Thank you for your reply.
I have also checked to apply process of new PR card. See the video please. It says how to fill up form to apply for new PR card:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/multimedia/video/imm5444/imm5444.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/multimedia/video/imm5444/imm5444.asp
In section D it says about 1095 days.
Will I be in trouble for not meeting this 1095 days requirement when I apply for new PR card?
Thanks again
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2011 at 9:32pm
I am not certain, not at all, but I have the strong impression that it is simply NOT a good idea to apply to renew the PR card unless and until you have met the 730 residency obligation.
The 1095 days in section D of the instructional materials you linked is about a PR who has, in the last five years, been absent for 1095 or more days . . . basically the other side of the 730 days in five years coin. Five years equals 1095 days plus 730 days (remember, February 29 in leap years does not count, not either way, it is as if the day never existed).
The first five year period runs from the date you landed -- the date your PR card expires is basically totally irrelevant (even though for the first time round, it will expire around five years later plus however long it took to process it). Again, the obligation to get in 730 days in Canada is to have that done by the 1825th day (not counting any Feb 29) following THE DAY YOU LANDED.
Beginning the day after your fifth year anniversary since landing, you must always have been in Canada for 730 days in the immediately preceding five year time frame in order to not be in breach of the residency obligation. Thus, for example, if your PR card expires five years plus 35 days after you landed . . . by the day your PR card expires you must have been in Canada 730 days NOT counting any of the first 35 days after landing (because they precede, that is are outside, the five year time frame) . . . and so on and so on into the future.
Bottom line: if at all possible avoid travel except this one trip you are talking about, and do not apply for the PR card renewal until you can document 730 days in Canada. There is nothing wrong with letting the PR card expire except you cannot use it to travel abroad! Just live with an expired PR card until you can safely apply for a new one showing you have met the residency requirement.
Now this is not absolutely necessary! They are fairly lenient, it appears, about not meeting the 730 day requirement depending though on circumstances, the why, and so on . . . but there is no reason to take any chances with this, best to simply wait until you are in compliance with the 730 requirement and then apply.
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Posted By: merksy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:27pm
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If you cannot make it for a lomger period, is it a good or bad thing to enter Canada for 1 day just to get your passport stamped?
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Posted By: merksy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:29pm
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A related question is: If you cannot make it for a longer period for now, is it a good or bad thing to
enter Canada for 1 day to get your passport stamped?
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Posted By: wonderer
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 9:40pm
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I think question is not clear
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Posted By: merksy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 11:00pm
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I posted in an earlier thread, I have fallen very short of meeting the 730 day requirement, and will not meet it when my card expires in Aug 2011. I am trying to move permanently by July 2010, though still doubtful since I am not finished my studies in the US. I have not been to Canada since 2008.I wondered if it would help if I travelled for just one day or a weekend every month while the card is still valid, or would that just raise red flags?
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 1:51am
I do not know how this particular scenario would play out.
July 2010 is long past now. Aug 2011 is just over 200 days away.
The variables at play are many, and difficult to definitively predict. One can mostly talk about risks, perhaps even to some extent probabilities, but more of the "if ... then" sorts of probabilities because, again, there are so many variables and so many directions the POE contact can go in.
Bottom line though: less than 300 days in Canada by fifth year anniversary sounds like a high risk for a residency examination at the POE followed by a inadmissibility report and removal order . . . not at all certain how it would go, but I suspect the risk is high, though, again, depending on other factors: immediate family well-established in Canada probably would help, a firm job in Canada probably would help, but whether or not they would help enough I do not dare guess.
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Posted By: wonderer
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 10:27pm
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one more question.
Considering my scenario, the purpose of my short trip (7 days) will be to get married. Will I be able to sponsor my wife after i come back, provided i will have full time permanent job in Canada.
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Posted By: scylla
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 10:51pm
You'll be able to sponsor your wife provided you are living in Canada (as a PR, you must be living in Canada in order to sponsor and you must continue living in Canada while the application is processed). From an income standpoint, you can't be on social assistance/welfare and you can't be bankrupt. Other than that, there are no income requirements to sponsor a spouse.
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Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010
Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010
Processing started: 08/19/2010
Passport request: 10/01/2010
Landed: 10/05/2010
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Posted By: wonderer
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 11:43pm
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Thanks a lot for all the information.
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