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Bad News...

Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Family Class Sponsorship
Forum Description: A review of current sponsorship programs (permanent residence) promoting the reunion in Canada of close relatives from abroad.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3040
Printed Date: 16 Jun 2021 at 4:15pm


Topic: Bad News...
Posted By: tunisianbride
Subject: Bad News...
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 9:43am
Well, I finally got my answer and it isn't good.   Cry  I just found out less than one hour ago, that my husband was 'refused'!  He got his letter today.  He called me first and then we went online together while he opened the small brown envelope.   I had a very bad feeling before he opened this letter, because I just woke up from a bad dream in which I was dreaming that he was refused and I was crying.  My dream became a nightmare when he told me what the letter said.  I still can't believe it.  I'm at work now and I don't know how I will get through the day.  I sent in so much proof, we had a big tunisian wedding with lots of photos, we chatted almost every day in Skype and MSN since we met in September 2008 and I sent in all this proof too along with loads of proof of daily text messages and phone calls.  But, that didn't convince them that our marriage was real.  OMG....my worse nightmare has become a reality.  UnhappyAnyways, I have to keep telling myself that this isn't the end of the world and life goes on.  Yes, I will appeal because I can't give up because I know my husband loves me and I love him more than anything in this world.  I guess I will be joining the appeal thread now.  Anyways, good luck to everyone else out there who is still waiting for their decision.  I sincerely hope you don't have to go thru what I'm going thru now. 

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!



Replies:
Posted By: peachy871
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 9:57am
Oh, tunisianbride, I am so sorry to hear that!! What a horrible disappointment! What reason did they give for not approving? Did they just not believe it to be a valid marriage? Fight it until you win it, girl! Lots of us on here are rooting for you!

You may be joining the appeal thread now but hopefully, soon enough, you will be back on this thread with good news about your appeal! Saying lots of prayers for you!

-------------
Peachy


Posted By: lg107
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 10:04am
I'm really sorry to hear of your bad news. B'cas we're all in the same boat here, we all feel your pain. So sorry for you both. Take care! 

-------------
App.sent 25/3/10
Sponsorship apprd 30/4/10
In process 14/05/10
RPRF requested 10/6/10
Paid RPRF 12/6/10
Meds rec'd 24/06/10
DECISION MADE 6/07/10
PPR 13/07/10
Visa rec'd 3/08/10
Landed 20/08/10


Posted By: Patience Tuesday
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:23am
Heartfelt sympathy.   Grieve, certainly.  Then figure out why you fine folk were given such a harsh statement and appeal so we get a different answer next time.  Stay strong!
*hugs*


Posted By: audball
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:39am
I'm so so sorry. That's really horrible. I can't believe your proof didn't convince them that you're genuinely a loving couple.

This sounds ridiculous and I hope the appeal sets them straight.


Posted By: mcneil
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:41am
Thats terrible! I'm sorry to hear that.  Good Luck!


Posted By: mrkplm2
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:45am
i am sorry it is sad...we got more or less the same kind of refusal but only because they said that the sponsor (he s a PR and not a citizen) was not living in Canada during the process. (it is not true because he was working at the Canadian government since the application has been sent).

which are your reasons? you have all my support


Posted By: lonely
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:58am
I am very disturbed about this decision. They tell us that Canadians are free well I guess this goes to show that we are not. We have to leave our lives in the hands of a suit and tie to determine whether or not our marriages are true. I guess they don't care because it is not their hearts being broken and their lives being destroyed.  this shows me exactly what our so called government and immigration workers are capable of. To these  people we are just a number and have no voice or opinion when it comes to being with the ones we love enough to marry. So in all this I am so heart broken and upset because with all your info and proof you were still denied so to me that gives me the impression that I to will be dealing with this in a few months. Angry I am so sorry and will be here to talk to.


Posted By: SCsquare
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 12:07pm
I m so sorry to hear abt the descision.. i was really wishing that it would be a positive outcome.. but dont losse heart... its a well known saying "Try  Try till u succeed"
my wishes r with u..
 


-------------
App Sent cpc-m - 28th Aug 09
Sponsorship App - 17th Nov 09
AOR from buffalo - 14th Dec 09
Interview Scheduled - 21st Jul 10
Passport requested , aprroved n passport received - 21st July 2010


Posted By: UKtoCAN
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 12:08pm
This is a sad story and a horrible situation.
 
 
Folks I am thinnking she should re - apply instead of appealing as i thik the appeal process takes longer to come though
 
tunisabride, did they give you any particular reason as to why they are refusing you. Please share.
 
Why dont you re - apply again it might take 6 - 7 months and make sure you compile more strong evidence again. I know you feel terrible but we are all keeping our fingers cross for you.


Posted By: scylla
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 12:13pm
I'm so sorry... I can't imagine what you must be feeling right now.

-------------
Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010
Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010
Processing started: 08/19/2010
Passport request: 10/01/2010
Landed: 10/05/2010


Posted By: Saya
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 12:35pm

I'm sorry about the outcome. It's so stupid and makes me mad that it's up to one person to deterime one's fate. This is a step that seriously need to be revaluated! I'm sorry that you have to go through this.



-------------
Meds - Apr 13/10
App rec'd CPC-M - Apr 21/10
Sponsor Aprvd - May 27/10
App In Process/Meds Rec'd - Jun 16/10
DM - July 27/10
PPR via Email - Aug 4/10
PP w/ VISA - Aug 24/10
CommonLaw - London


Posted By: justina
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 1:16pm
tunisianbride

im so sorry to hear it!! i hope whichever decision you make to reapply or appeal is successful! This is such a tough process for everyone involved.


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 1:28pm

The refusal letter that came to my husband today, was in French, and since I don't speak French, he read it himself first, then told me he was refused.  I didn't have long to talk to him this morning because I had to get to work, but I will be talking to him later today and I will see then if he can tell me anymore about what the letter says, but I imagine, it is because they don't believe our marriage is genuine.  Even though I knew this could happen, it's still a shock and you're never really prepared for this.  I have this philosophy, that when things really get you down and don't go your way, remember, things can always be worse, and there are a lot of other people in this world, and probably in this forum, who have it a lot worse than I do. 

Anyways, I would like to thank everyone for their support and best wishes - you people are really great and I really mean that!  (I guess you guys will all be stuck with me for a long time to come too)   Thanks again.


-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: audball
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 1:34pm
If we can do anything at all to help, let us know. We all want to help you as much as possible


Posted By: UKtoCAN
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 1:40pm
Tunisaibride,
 
The room is very much interested in helping and i am sure we will do our best to support and direct you. My personal contribution is for you not to give up and if possible re - apply and this time again provide every possible evidence and explanation. I am sure you have done this already but dont give up.
 
Go for it again. Appeal I read takes longand longer.
 
Folks what do you think about this?


Posted By: RobsLuv
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 4:07pm
Yes, appeals do take a long time - but re-applying will go through the same embassy that already refused him and that can be a strike against him as they're going to be interested in justifying their original decision again.  I don't know that tunisianbride could feel confident that the application would be dealt with fairly - and it would be devastating to go through a whole new application just to come out on the other end with the same decision. 

Believe me, I know how devastating this whole process can turn out to be - and  how unfair it sometimes seems that we have no control over what they decide . . . no opportunity to address concerns - and this actually goes against the Guidelines for Procedural Fairness that are included in Section 8 of the OP1 Processing Manual.  We have found, at least in regards to our embassy, an extreme lack of communication.  Our legitimate inquiries - both during the initial processing and now, during reprocessing after 2 years in the appeal system - are met with silence.  I don't know if they are just overworked, or if this is a deliberate refusal to provide information or "help" - but the results, in our case, have been disastrous and I find myself wondering if it's going to be more of the same in the months to come.  The Canadian government desperately needs to appoint an advocate for Canadian sponsors so that someone besides the MP's office can help sponsors when there are questions/concerns.

Your husband's letter will tell the reason for the refusal - probably they weren't convinced, after the interview, that he is not just using the relationship to get into Canada.  You will receive a very similar letter yourself, and information on how to appeal the decision.  Most MOC cases go to an Alternative Dispute Resolution hearing where you can submit more evidences of the genuine nature of the relationship and ask to have the case allowed on Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds.  It takes about a year to get an ADR hearing.  If the Minister's Counsel is not convinced at the ADR, s/he will refuse to "consent" and you can either abandon the appeal or go on to a full hearing.  It's typically another year until you get to a full appeal.  Whether you win at ADR, or later through a full appeal, the case goes back to the original visa office for reprocessing afterwards and they can't refuse for the same reason. 


-------------
3/2007-applied
1/2008-Refused
12/2008-ADR failed
1/2010-Appeal allowed
4/2010-In Process(Again)
5/2010-request FBI/meds
8/2010-FBI recd
11/30/10-APPROVED!
1/31/11-LANDED!


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 4:10pm
Sorry about your bad news.

More optimistically, some appeals do not take as long as the timelines one often sees here. A friend of ours went through this, her husband from Morocco was refused, they appealed, and he was here far sooner than we imagined it would be. Their issue was, of course, the genuineness of the relationship . . . should note, though, that she made at least three trips to visit him in Morocco, including one after the refusal and before the ADR during which she took along her children. I think substantial physical contact is a huge positive factor.

Good luck!

-------------
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 5:30pm
hey guys let me ask you this how come, some of us who are lucky enough find somebody we truly love and then get married, then get denied.  while other such as some of my friends who i know get married in an arranged marriage get married are allowed right away.  i have two friends who got married in india and iraq and then it was like 4 months their wives were heard.  and the worst part is one of my friends admitted to me he has no feelings for his wife at all.  makes you wonder.  do they also basis it on if they view if the marriage will work out kind of thing?


Posted By: SteelAce
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 8:54pm
@tunisianbride
So sorry about your bad news, but even if it might take longer to complete this excruciating process, at least you can either appeal or re-apply.  Hopefully once you get a chance to discuss the letter more thoroughly with your hubby, it will clarify why this happened.  Good luck to you in your attempt to turn the tables on them.. hehe.

-------------
4/30-CPC-M
6/3-Sponsor DM
6/9-Approval letter; QC Cert. app. sent
6/17-Start Manila
7/2-AOR with PP & AOM request
7/19-PP & AOM received
8/13-Approval QC Cert.
9/7-DM :))
9/16-Visa received!


Posted By: natnat
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2010 at 11:27pm
Girl!! sorry about the sad news and please don't give up, You will get it at the end of this long dark tunnel, and lots of us here will guide you thr this difficult moment. I know how hard and how sad you are right now.  Send in the appeal letter as soon as you got the refusal letter. and if financial available, try to get a immi lawyer to help, that will make a difference.
 
Cheers


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 6:33am
sh*t my wife got a decline letter as well i don't Know what to do. I guess I have to book a trip to see my wife so much for our plans. My wife doesn't even want to go to Canada anymore. I feel like sh*t and tomorrow is my birthday last thing I wanted to hear


Posted By: UKtoCAN
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 11:20am
trainman, am sorry to hear this but can you share your timeline and possible the reason given inthe letter.
 
sorry for the bad news. What is your next step? Are you appealing?


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 11:34am
I'm so sorry trainman that your wife also got a refusal letter. Unhappy I know how you're feeling right now.  I always say, that everything happens for a reason.  I can understand your wife feeling discouraged about coming to Canada now, especially, when they treated her so badly in the interview.  I guess the demeanor of the VO at the interview, doesn't mean a damn thing,  because my husband's VO was so nice and so he thought this was a good sign.  Yeah, right!  I guess this is the only thing we can do right now, other than file for an appeal, is to go see our spouses as soon as possible.  For me, I just came back from Tunisia last month, so I won't be able to get back down there again until October, and, I will have to beg my boss to give me some extra vacation time, as I only got 4 days left this year.  Yeah, go see your wife ASAP and you guys really need to talk this out.  Hopefully, everything will work out for you two, but the thought of waiting another 2 years to finally be able to start your life together, well, that can be quite daunting and depressing. Good luck to you trainman - my heart goes out to you.Hug

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by RobsLuv RobsLuv wrote:

Yes, appeals do take a long time - but re-applying will go through the same embassy that already refused him and that can be a strike against him as they're going to be interested in justifying their original decision again.  I don't know that tunisianbride could feel confident that the application would be dealt with fairly - and it would be devastating to go through a whole new application just to come out on the other end with the same decision. 

Believe me, I know how devastating this whole process can turn out to be - and  how unfair it sometimes seems that we have no control over what they decide . . . no opportunity to address concerns - and this actually goes against the Guidelines for Procedural Fairness that are included in Section 8 of the OP1 Processing Manual.  We have found, at least in regards to our embassy, an extreme lack of communication.  Our legitimate inquiries - both during the initial processing and now, during reprocessing after 2 years in the appeal system - are met with silence.  I don't know if they are just overworked, or if this is a deliberate refusal to provide information or "help" - but the results, in our case, have been disastrous and I find myself wondering if it's going to be more of the same in the months to come.  The Canadian government desperately needs to appoint an advocate for Canadian sponsors so that someone besides the MP's office can help sponsors when there are questions/concerns.

Your husband's letter will tell the reason for the refusal - probably they weren't convinced, after the interview, that he is not just using the relationship to get into Canada.  You will receive a very similar letter yourself, and information on how to appeal the decision.  Most MOC cases go to an Alternative Dispute Resolution hearing where you can submit more evidences of the genuine nature of the relationship and ask to have the case allowed on Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds.  It takes about a year to get an ADR hearing.  If the Minister's Counsel is not convinced at the ADR, s/he will refuse to "consent" and you can either abandon the appeal or go on to a full hearing.  It's typically another year until you get to a full appeal.  Whether you win at ADR, or later through a full appeal, the case goes back to the original visa office for reprocessing afterwards and they can't refuse for the same reason. 
You're right Robsluv - I talked to my husband at length last night on the internet, and he told me that the letter said, that they weren't convinced after the interview, that our marriage was genuine, and that he was just using me to come to Canada.  First of all, if my husband married me just to come to Canada, I am sure he would've kept searching until he found someone closer to his age, that wasn't married at the time (but separated), and that hadn't already sponsored someone before.  He's not stupid, and knew that it wouldn't be easy, and maybe even impossible, but when you're in love, you go for the impossible sometimes.  Initially, I was going to go live with him in Tunisia, as he was expecting a rather large inheritance, but that didn't come thru as planned and is now tied up in the courts.  He wanted to buy a small farm in Tunisia and he knew he could make a comfortable living from that, and be able to support me too.  But our plans changed once he knew he wasn't going to get this money probably, for quite some time. 
 
It takes one year for ADR?  I thought it was only 6 months and was a lot faster than a full appeal?  no?  I get very nervous in courtroom-like settings and can't think straight.  Do you think I should get a lawyer?  How long does it take to find out if you can go by ADR and who decides this?  Boy, have "I" got a lot to learn about the appeal process as I haven't a clue as to what to do.  Thanks. 


-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 3:19pm
yeah i plan to appeal i am not too sure on where to find out about the appeal.  can someone give me a quick summer of what will happen?  i read i need some to represent more or something?  anyone know what they mean?   anyways, i plan to go to moscow as soon as i can to be with my wife, so i can cheer her up.  it's been tough on both of us.  let me just say, they the canada immigration screwed my plans and yeah i love my wife enough that we will fight this, i hope everyone here can help me out during this tough process.  we started to get some documents already.  i am ready for war.    


Posted By: rosa_bella
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 7:03pm
trainman,
               they will send you a copy of the refusal letter soon and in it will be instructions on how to appeal.sometimes it takes a while to get to you,if that's the case you can go down to the immigration appeal office in your area.you just need to get your spouse to fax you a copy of her letter and bring it with you.it took me a while to get my refusal letter;so i appealed without it,and they accepted it. good luck.


-------------
Our best successes,comes after our disappointments.


Posted By: rosa_bella
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 7:11pm
tunisianbride,
so sorry that you were refused.if you live in the toronto area,you can appeal before you get your copy of the refusal letter. you can get your hubby to send you a copy of his by fax you can bring it with you to victoria street at the immigration appeal office. let them know you are still waiting for your copy.the sooner you get it in there,the better.sometimes ADR takes upto a year,but you may be lucky to get an earlier date.go to your mp and see what they can do for you,i did and it helped me,i got a date within 4 months.i wish you the best of luck with your appeal.it's long road ahead,but never give up.


-------------
Our best successes,comes after our disappointments.


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2010 at 7:44pm
is there anything about appeals on the canada immigration website?  i would like to find more info on it and i don't believe i would be able to my mp would help me, they weren't much help the last time i talked to them they didn't even know what caips was.


Posted By: Oms
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 11:21pm
tunisianbride, sorry to hear the bad news... I feel your pain and your frustration.
My wife got a refusal letter this morning and I can't think straight right now.
Same reason, they're not convinced that the marriage is genuine.
I really dont know how he made his decisions, since he refused to see all the documents my wife brought with her to the interview.
I guess my only option now is to appeal and wait a few more years
If someone knows a good immigration lawyer, please share..



Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 6:56am
I'm so sorry Oms to hear that your wife got a refusal letter.  It's really heartbreaking, I know.  Which visa office did you go thru?  You can call the Law Society of Upper Canada at 1-800-268-8326 and they will give you the name of an immigration lawyer in your area, and you can call them and get a 30 minute free legal consultation.  You can ask at that time, what the lawyer would charge, to represent you in the appeal.  Good luck and don't give up!

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 3:29pm

oms i feel your pain.  however i am happy i will be seeing my wife very soon. i will deal figuring out a way to pay for it later.  and i call that number too to see if anyone can  help me too.  i need a good lawyer.  anyways is it true does anyone know if you have a good lawyer or something an appeal will happen faster?



Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by trainman trainman wrote:

oms i feel your pain.  however i am happy i will be seeing my wife very soon. i will deal figuring out a way to pay for it later.  and i call that number too to see if anyone can  help me too.  i need a good lawyer.  anyways is it true does anyone know if you have a good lawyer or something an appeal will happen faster?

 
I hear ya trainman (about figuring out how to pay for things later).  I suggest you join the "IAD appeals, ADRs..." thread now - the people in there are so helpful and we're all going thru the same pain.   Some have won without a lawyer - I may have to go it alone because I can't afford to keep flying down to Tunisia every 6 months 'and' pay for a lawyer. 


-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 6:08pm
yeah i will join.  hey do you think it is a good think to get a lawyer or not?  i mean if you can prove your relationship is geniune, shouldnt that be it?


Posted By: Harmonia
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 11:44am
Trainman - I would strongly suggest getting some form of qualified representation (immigration lawyer).  They have far more experience in fighting appeals than you do, and might have some tricks up their sleeve that you might not think about.  Make sure that when you choose an immigration lawyer that they have actual hands-on experience with cases similar to yours, and moreso - that they have been successful.
 
And yes - I agree with you - if you can prove the relationship is genuine, that should be good enough -- but sadly, the I/O didn't share that opinion.
 
Sometimes I wonder if they are secretly told to delay what they might consider 'non-conventional applications' - just to add enough stress to the situation to 'weed out' the non-genuine apps.  It's just a thought - and in no way indicitive of reality - but I've seen a few legit couples be denied, and that bugs me.
 
Again we ask the question:  how on Earth can someone "validate" a relationship with only a paper file, a 90 minute interview, and ZERO personal insight?  The entire process has more holes than swiss cheese. 
 
I can understand perhaps being able to identify 'high-risk' sponsors (i.e. people who have already sponsored one spouse into Canada, and are now trying for another) --- but how they make concrete decisions without concrete facts is beyond me.
 
It cant be an easy job though.  I am sure they realize that they are holding peoples' lives in their hands... lives that they can ruin at the flick of a pen.  I have not (yet) been at an interview - so I have no idea how the I/O's conduct the assessments.  They are just people - and while some people are compassionate, some are not.  I'm sure that they all get faced with challenges where there is a conflict between their own personal beliefs and CIC policy. 
 
Rather than identify that on-the-fly, they have the appeals process. 
 
Perhaps they would do better having a 'buddy system' for PR applications - where both parties need to agree on the outcome, and if they are deadlocked, a third party is brought in to swing the balance.  Nice idea - and relatively fair too - but can you imagine how long the process would take if they did that?
 
 


-------------
Citizenship App Sent: December 2012


Posted By: pmm
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 2:00pm
Hi

Originally posted by Harmonia Harmonia wrote:

Trainman - I would strongly suggest getting some form of qualified representation (immigration lawyer).  They have far more experience in fighting appeals than you do, and might have some tricks up their sleeve that you might not think about.  Make sure that when you choose an immigration lawyer that they have actual hands-on experience with cases similar to yours, and moreso - that they have been successful.


 

And yes - I agree with you - if you can prove the relationship is genuine, that should be good enough -- but sadly, the I/O didn't share that opinion.

 

Sometimes I wonder if they are secretly told to delay what they might consider 'non-conventional applications' - just to add enough stress to the situation to 'weed out' the non-genuine apps.  It's just a thought - and in no way indicitive of reality - but I've seen a few legit couples be denied, and that bugs me.

 

Again we ask the question:  how on Earth can someone "validate" a relationship with only a paper file, a 90 minute interview, and ZERO personal insight?  The entire process has more holes than swiss cheese. 

 

I can understand perhaps being able to identify 'high-risk' sponsors (i.e. people who have already sponsored one spouse into Canada, and are now trying for another) --- but how they make concrete decisions without concrete facts is beyond me.

 

It cant be an easy job though.  I am sure they realize that they are holding peoples' lives in their hands... lives that they can ruin at the flick of a pen.  I have not (yet) been at an interview - so I have no idea how the I/O's conduct the assessments.  They are just people - and while some people are compassionate, some are not.  I'm sure that they all get faced with challenges where there is a conflict between their own personal beliefs and CIC policy. 

 

Rather than identify that on-the-fly, they have the appeals process. 

 

Perhaps they would do better having a 'buddy system' for PR applications - where both parties need to agree on the outcome, and if they are deadlocked, a third party is brought in to swing the balance.  Nice idea - and relatively fair too - but can you imagine how long the process would take if they did that?

 

 


1. I doubt that there are any "secret instructions" there are just too many applications, so the IO has no real interest or hidden agenda. They just want them processed and off their desk, so they can get on with the next one.
2. I bet most IOs would prefer that all the applications were complete and genuine, it is a lot less work to approve than refuse, and document and write the refusal.

-------------
PMM


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 3:24pm
I largely agree with PMM.

However, there does appear to be an unwritten or unofficial tendency toward, if not a relatively defined threshold imposed upon, certain kinds of applications being processed in a few specific Visa Offices. And this is probably based very much on practical realities and probabilities, not cultural or ethnic bias (even though perhaps the impact has a disproportionate impact on certain cultural and ethnic groups, and of course it appears that too often some cultural and ethnic bias does encroach into the process). As a result, especially relative to applications to sponsor persons from particular third-world, economically disadvantaged countries, and involving applicants (from such countries) with whom the sponsor has not had a lot of physical contact, the applicant probably faces a more difficult burden of proof . . . again, probably based on empirical data . . . which of course is probably exacerbated by the simple reality that the absence of a lot of personal, physical contact itself attenuates the capacity of the sponsor and applicant to fully and intimately know each other (many are "fooled" or misled by someone they spend large portions of most days with, let alone by someone who they rarely have spent physical time with), making it more difficult to "prove" the genuineness of the relationship.

It is worth remembering, it is not a Visa Officer's job to abstractly discern whether or not a relationship is genuine. It is the Visa Officer's job to determine whether or not the applicant has PROVEN that that relationship is genuine as well as all the other elements of the application.

Thus, just because a relationship is indeed genuine does not mean it qualifies. It must be genuine, AND the applicant must PROVE it is genuine. This seems to be oft overlooked; it appears many tend to present what might be called a "prima facie" case thinking that is sufficient (and I had an acquaintance who obviously approached the sponsorship of his Russian wife this way, with predictable results). It isn't.

-------------
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: boundary47
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 1:05am
I have no doubt that most IOs take their jobs quite seriously, and I am sure there are some difficult cases to decide.  I recall reading that the rejection rates vary considerably by office, and I assume this is due to a combination of a higher proportion of weak or even outright fraudulent applications, and more skeptical IOs.  Some would undoubtedly interpret regional differences as evidence of racial or cultural bias, and I've no doubt that it's a fair charge in some cases.  After all, the world is far from perfect, and if there's anything I've learned it's that almost anything you can imagine has happened at one time or another.  

I'm sure there are genuine couples who have been kept apart by rejections; fraudulent applications correctly sniffed out and rejected, and even cases in which sponsors have been saved from a lot of grief by IO's rejections of people trying to use a sponsor's affection to gain entry to Canada.  The entire gamut is undoubtedly represented among those rejected. However, that is no comfort to a genuine couple who haven't provided the level of proof required by their IO.   

The system is imperfect and undoubtedly mistakes are made. It's cold comfort to the victims of these mistakes that the system generally works quite well and processes the majority of applications fairly, albeit very slowly in some offices. My heart goes out to those rejected - I can imagine how that must feel, as I think most of us can because undoubtedly we worried about it while our application was in play.


-------------
B47
Jan 29 App. sent
Mar 1 Sponsor approved
Mar 9 Passport requested
Mar 24 RPR Fee paid
Apr 15 File under review
Apr 30 Decision made
May 11 Decision mailed
May 13 Visa received
May 20 Landed


Posted By: immigrationconsultan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:04am
Hello
I want to first tell you that i am sorry about the outcome of your file
I am a immigration consultant and would like to talk to you about it and help you with you appeal
at a reasonable cost
Contact me anytime
Nancy
[email protected]


Posted By: eastcoastgirl
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 11:13am
@Immigrationconsultant....
It would be my guess that this is NOT a place to solicit business for yourself and prey on innocent people and take advantage of their misfortunes!!!!!  Get a life and go look for business elsewhere!!!!
(If I am wrong and this person is legit, I do apologize but something tells me this is a scam)!


-------------
06/22/09:Married in Santo Domingo
04/22/10:Application received in Mississauga.
06/01/10:Approved to sponsor
07/16/10:In process (can finally log on e-cas on 21st)
07/30/10:AOR rec'd in mail


Posted By: lonely
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 12:33pm
I have to agree with eastcoastgirl. these forums are for those who are going through the process and we are here for each other to help if we can. I feel it is not the right spot for consultants to be.


Posted By: immigrationconsultan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 2:32pm
East coast girl i am legit and you can verify my membership as a csic member i am not prying on innocent people as you notice this person ask for help and i offer my help
I understand that you may feel i am  scam as there is many scam
here is the link where u can verify my id
https://www.csic-scci.ca/find/all.html
 my name is Nancy Le Breton
and to lonely why is it not the right spot for consultant  to be here  i am also in process of sponsorship my husband and i think that if i can give free advice and help people and also learn and listen to what people need and want
If i offended anyone it was not my intention i am sorry  my intention are good i am just trying to help east coast girl i am also original from the east coast i am a from New Brunswick but now live in B.C.
Wish you all luck and a good day




Posted By: eastcoastgirl
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 2:49pm
@Immigrationconsultant...you say you are legit and want to offer free advise, but why in the other post did you say you would charge her a reasonable fee (not your words exactly but this is basically what you said).  People on this forum are here to offer and recieve adivse and support free of cost.  When someone is going through a rough time, I do not think they need people coming out of the woodwork charging them money.  If she requested your help, that would be a totally different scenario.  If someone had given her the number or name of someone to contact, that would have also been a different scenario.  You on the other hand are looking for money in my opinion and could care less how she makes out. Again, this is only my opinion.  I just know there are many people out there that are indeed naive, good honest people that are easily taken advantage of.  I would hate to think this is what is going on. 

-------------
06/22/09:Married in Santo Domingo
04/22/10:Application received in Mississauga.
06/01/10:Approved to sponsor
07/16/10:In process (can finally log on e-cas on 21st)
07/30/10:AOR rec'd in mail


Posted By: immigrationconsultan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:29pm
I am giving free advice yes but if you look at this post they where looking for someone to do there file and assist them with there appeal this means going to the appeal court and yes i would charge for this you don't know me at all so don't judge me and why would i take advantage of people i believe what comes around goes around Karma and by the way someone did contact me and ask me to help this person but i was not able to reach them .....Stop judging where all here for the same reason 


Posted By: eastcoastgirl
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:38pm
No I do not know you, I was merely trying to point out that this is not the place to solicit business.  I will not respond to any further posts on this matter.  I don't judge you or anyone else, I am in no place to judge.  Just stating the obvious.

-------------
06/22/09:Married in Santo Domingo
04/22/10:Application received in Mississauga.
06/01/10:Approved to sponsor
07/16/10:In process (can finally log on e-cas on 21st)
07/30/10:AOR rec'd in mail


Posted By: immigrationconsultan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:40pm
No Prob east coast i wish you the best of luck i understand where your coming from no hard feelings
Take care


Posted By: eastcoastgirl
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:45pm
Good luck to you as well Smile

-------------
06/22/09:Married in Santo Domingo
04/22/10:Application received in Mississauga.
06/01/10:Approved to sponsor
07/16/10:In process (can finally log on e-cas on 21st)
07/30/10:AOR rec'd in mail


Posted By: shannonlouise
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 12:52am
@tunnisia_bride

Did you checked your e-cas status? does it says Decision made with medical received?
or without medical received? I am just wondering, in Philippines, they said
Decision Made in e-cas without medical received is refusal decision and
Decision Made in e-cas with Medical received is good news!!! ... Just wondering...

Does anyone here got decision made in e-cas with medical received then turned out
bad news? Please advise. thank you very much!


-------------
Feb 1 Application sent
Feb 25 DM(CPC-Miss)
March 23 Manila in process
April 15 Received PPR&NBI request
May 5 Sent PPR&NBI
July 1 DM(e-cas)
July 21 Visa received via DHL
*JUNE 24 VISA ISSUANCE*


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 11:05am
My ECAS said "decision made" but didn't say 'medicals received'.

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: shannonlouise
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2010 at 11:18am
thanks for the reply tunisian_bride:-)well, i hope you all the best.
I am sure God has better plans for you and your love one. Take care
and good luck into re-applying or appealing. I am sure,
the second time around will be your right time. Thanks again.


-------------
Feb 1 Application sent
Feb 25 DM(CPC-Miss)
March 23 Manila in process
April 15 Received PPR&NBI request
May 5 Sent PPR&NBI
July 1 DM(e-cas)
July 21 Visa received via DHL
*JUNE 24 VISA ISSUANCE*


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 9:52am
tunisianbride, i couldnt reply back to your message, your box is full but yeah find out what he says.  thanks trainman


Posted By: omairh
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 10:38am
Censored


Posted By: warya
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 11:48am
^ omg omairh are you serious?
its ramadan and showing little kindness and love wouldnt hurt.


-------------
CHC-I Dec 16, 2009
Nov 7,10 additional document request
Feb 25,11 sent proof of visit
Mar 4,11 Passport req n remed
Mar 11,11 Med done,passport sent
April 14, 11 Passport back!!


Posted By: trainman
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 11:51am
yeah man what is the deal why the hate?


Posted By: lonely
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by omairh omairh wrote:

tunisianbride was a stupid woman to begin with. she went outside the social norms to marry him. it was accident waiting to happen. by going into appeal process, she's again taking wrong step. Stupid biiitch
Not sure what type of person u are but by what u wrote I can see you have very little to no heart... to you what is social norms????? as far as calling tunisianbride a biiiitch well that was uncalled for.... FYI she is a very nice person and just had a bad break so maybe you should think about what you have to say about others... I am sure your back yard isnt completely clean to be judging others....

-------------
apps miss mar 18
sponsorship approved may 11
apps sent to paris may 11... May 5 got letter and husband denied waiting for ADR..
AOR recieved july 1
apps in process june 23. inter. Nov8 DM Nov 16


Posted By: Patience Tuesday
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 2:28pm
Or one could report such rude language and behaviour.
Upper right hand corner, 'report this post' in options.

This person generally has posted less-than-helpful and less-than-supportive posts in the past.  Never have I seen such rudeness though.

Just a thought. 


Posted By: EnglishMuffin
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 3:30pm
I am told that the city I live in, Vancouver, has over ten percent of its couples defined as being in mixed ethnicity relationships. I am sure that this represents a broad trend across the metropolitan areas of Canada. I myself am in a mixed ethnicity relationship with my partner. There is an increasing tolerance and understanding of cultural differences in today's wired society, and mixed ethnicity relationships are becoming very common.

So I would argue that Tunisianbride is by no means going 'outside of societal norms'.

Omairh, you would do yourself and many other people a big favour by not responding further to this thread; why not spend your time more positively by adopting the Canadian values of understanding and tolerance of others instead of adopting such an outmoded mindset.


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 6:39pm
i am tunisien arabia musilmen men and i want just let my wife in peace .tunisianbirde is my wife.it is clair


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2010 at 6:45pm
i will protect my wife all my life and somthing touch her   touch me.


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2010 at 6:21pm
i love my wife and hope i can be beside her all my life Hearti realy need to be near my  love all eternity  and is hard to live far a way from her.


Posted By: Redcat
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2010 at 6:33pm
I am so sorry you had to go through that, my partner and I had to as well. Now, I am desperately struggling to get her here...
 
*big hugs*


Posted By: jawedkhan
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2010 at 5:21pm
Hey trainman sorry about your situation hope everything works out.  Iam a new member in this forum so i cant help you much but i can give you the link to what i read from a senior member about appeals hope this gives you a direction on what to do.  best of luck
 
http://immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22&PN=606&title=islamabad-processing-time - http://immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22&PN=606&title=islamabad-processing-time


Posted By: nav mann
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 12:36pm

i am a new member but was going through ur threads, felt very bad about ur case, they should'nt have done this after u provided with so many valid proofs, this is illogical,

i will pray for u ,so that all ur hurdels are cleared away as fast as possible, so that u both are united and happily living and enjoying ur life, god bless u, cheers


-------------
mann


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 12:42pm
Thanks Mann.  I appreciate your prayers and all the best to you too.Smile

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: UKtoCAN
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 3:33pm
Hi tunisiabride,
 
How are you and everything is your case? I hope all is well?


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 4:47pm
Hi UKtoCAN.  Thanks for asking and I'm doing okay.  I recently hired a lawyer in Toronto to assist me with my appeal and this has alleviated a lot of the stress I was feeling when I thought I was going to go at it alone.  I'm going to Tunisia at Xmas to spend 2 weeks with my husband and to gather all the proof we can muster for the appeal.  Hopefully, I will know by then, if we will be getting an ADR or a full hearing.   Anyways, other than that, I'm just trying to stay busy and trying not to think about it too much.  How are things with you?

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: Harmonia
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 3:57pm
tunisianbride -- I think it's good that you enlisted a lawyer to help sort through this nightmare.  Trying to do it all yourself would be just too overwhelming.  You've already gone through the hell of waiting (and being hopeful) to having an interview (you were really excited) to having the deny you (terrible news)...   You've been having to deal with expensive travel back and forth - no to mention the stress of being apart from your spouse...   and now - the rollercoaster continues.  Letting a professional assist your through the endless maze of red tape will take a load of stress off, for sure!
 
I am hoping that your lawyer will kick some serious CIC-butt, and properly law out your case for them. 
 
Keep us updated with where you're at. 


-------------
Citizenship App Sent: December 2012


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 4:59pm
Thanks Harmonia for your concern.  You are absolutely 'right' that the mere thought of handling this appeal case on my own, was just so overwhelming that I was making myself crazy!  I could hardly think of anything else but this appeal which was disrupting my sleep, my appetite and my work.  Now I almost feel normal again knowing that I have hired an immigration lawyer to help get us through this painstaking ordeal.  As difficult as this 'rollercoaster' ride has been, with the love of my husband and with the help of God, we will prevail! (inshallah) Smile 

-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 8:09pm
Sounds like a very positive step to me. The holiday season trip should be of much comfort as well as indeed helping in the appeal.

Wishing you good luck as this move forward.

I should note (cannot remember if I posted this here before or not) that a friend of ours went through the appeal process for her husband from Morocco and it actually went through far more quickly (though while in process it seemed, to her, to be taking forever) than many of the reports of appeals in the forum here . . . and indeed, one of the things she did to bolster the appeal was travel there to see him during the pendency of the appeal. I'd say that now they are happily together here but the adjustment for him has not been that easy and so they have a ways to go to make it work . . . but they are at least together here.

-------------
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: tunisianbride
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 11:13pm
Thanks so much dpenabill.  Your post has given me more hope that things will go our way and maybe sooner, rather than later.  Hope is one thing, that immigration can't take away from us. Smile
 
As far as my trip to Tunisia goes, I never thought about it really as helping our appeal, but that's good to know! Big smile  I wanted to go a lot sooner than December, but my finances and lack of vacation time, would not allow me to do so.  But, as it turns out, other than the longer wait, this might end up being the ideal time for me to go, because my lawyer 'should' receive our tribunal record in November, given him lots of time to read everything over and plan his strategy, and then tell me what I need in the way of proof to bring back with me from Tunisia.Thumbs Up (a lot better than relying on the postal service)
 
Thanks again for your best wishes and all the best to you too!


-------------
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 11:27am
i hope evrything go fast with as my Heart and realy i cant live so far from my wife .i want be beside her all life and miss her sooo much.i love u sooooooo much.


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 8:12pm
i want tell all persone in the world that i love my wife soooo much and is so hard to not be with her and i feel alone .with her i am soo happy and i forget all the world


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 8:15pm
i love sooo muchHeartand need u and want u and miss u evry second u rnt with me


Posted By: tati
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 11:18am
u r evrything in my life my love and i hope immigration understn this and let me be with my heart soon


Posted By: nav mann
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2010 at 10:47am
may u two be again happily united with each other soon,,and live ur each n every day happily afterwards,,take careTongue

-------------
mann



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