Working Outside Canada
Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Preserving Permanent Residence Status
Forum Description: How long can a permanent resident remain outside of Canada? Commentaries on preserving permanent residence.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1299
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2024 at 8:10am
Topic: Working Outside Canada
Posted By: otcer
Subject: Working Outside Canada
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 6:02pm
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Hi everyone,
I landed in June 2007, stayed for about one week and since then I haven't travelled back to Canada. My PR card expires in June 2012 and I understand that if I do not enter before May/June 2010 (3-4 months from now) I am at risk of loosing my status as the agent at the airport will note that I will not be able to fulfill the 730days requirement.
I have a job offer from a canadian company based in Toronto. They told me they could send me the contract paperwork electronically for my signature If I wanted to.
My first question is:
Is it better for me to to travel within the next couple of days and sign the contract being inside Canada? vs doing all the paperwork from outside Canada and not travelling to Toronto? If I go, I will only stay for a few days and the return to the country where I will be working for them.
This job offer is not great for me in terms of money and it would mean for me a high opportunity cost, since I would have to take time out of my current business, which I own, in order to work for them. Although it would be an "easy" job for me, again, it would certainly mean a potential decrease on my earnings derived from my business over here.
I would only take this job if I can really be sure it can help me maintain my PR status until I decide to move to Canada (once I sell my business). I have read the requirements in the CIC website about "Employment outside Canada", but in my opinion the information is a bit vague. I want to know if there are more specific requirements, such as, how long has the company being in business, minimum number of employees, minimum number of revenues it generates etc. The same in terms of the job offered....minimum wage a foreign worker should be paid, education requirements (MBA, bachelors etc)...etc etc. Where can I find more specifics about this kind of requirements.
My second question (or third already):
I understand the time that I work with this canadian firm can be counted towards the 730day requierment in order to maintain PR status, but will this time can also be counted towards the 1095day requierment towards citizenship? Lets say I work for this company for 3 yrs or more, can I apply for citizenship even though I have not lived in Canada?
My last question:
While I work for this company in the future, whenever I get called from the Toronto office and I travel to Canada, what type of paperwork do I need to take with me in order to show the agent at the airport? If I only show him my PR card, he will see the expiration day and he will come to the conclusion that I will not be able to fulfill my obligation, so I guess i need to show him proof of my employment outside Canada.
I guess I need to keep all sorts of records, such as paystubs, checking account deposits from my employer and tax returns as additional proof of my employment.
I appreciate any insights from anyone, in the meantime I will try to to get a professional advice from an immigration expert...can someone recommend me one? Remember, accepting this job can have a deep impact on my finances, so I want to make the right decision here.
Many thanks in advance
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Replies:
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 12:43pm
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You have to be hired by the Canadian company IN CANADA, and then transferred overseas later. The company's HQ must be here and they should have Canadian operations/employees/offices/HQ Thats the way it works, not the other way....It's not that easy to work around the PR residency obligations. If Canada has given you an opportunity then you should come and live here. |
Posted By: blackpearl
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 7:44pm
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< ="utf-8"> I do not have first hand experience for working outside Canada. My advice is to read the following page < ="utf-8"> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445EA.asp - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445EA.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445EA.asp - Key points: - You have to be employed full time (40 hours a week?) - The company must be headquartered in Canada and has ongoing operations in Canada I have heard that you have to be hired from Canada, and then transferred abroad, however I don't think it is what implied in the guide below. For citizenship, you have to reside in Canada. Therefore days spent residing outside of Canada and working for Canadian company only counts towards maintaining PR status. It cannot be used towards citizenship. When coming to Canada, you have to show your PR card, and the supporting documents as described below.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 1:57am
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ditto blackpearl re citizenship: physical presence in Canada is required for the requisite time (basically three out of the four years immediately preceding the date you submit the app for citizenship). also ditto the information taken from CIC website. I think it is important to be sure that the company you work for meets the requirements of a "Canadian" business, in order for that to count. Note: while you can be interviewed about meeting the residency requirement upon entry into Canada, as a PR you are entitled to entry -- even after the PR card has expired (problem there, though, is getting on the plane . . . since a commercial airline is not likely to accept an expired PR card -- but if you can get yourself to a Canadian POE, they have to let you in). If it appears that you have not met the residency requirement, CBSA (at the POE, including in an airport) can only make a record of that and a referral for an investigation; they cannot refuse you entry. You don't want things to get to that stage, but you do not have to worry about not being allowed into Canada. I would definitely carry some proof of working for a Canadian company and, if the question is raised, try to persuade CBSA at the POE that you do meet the residency because you were working for a Canadian company, but, again, it is not as if a conclusive decision is made at that point whether or not you have met the residency requirement -- CIC would have to commence revocation of PR proceedings. And, all a PR has to do is get back into Canada, and once in Canada if they stay two years, that satisfies the two in five requirement, even if they were gone ten years before that. (Requirement only applies to the last five years.) I have seen a case where a PR entered Canada on a visitor visa (he had surrendered his PR card to a Canadian embassy in a foreign country years before), stayed more than two years, and that was sufficient to re-establish his compliance with the residency requirement. Should note, though, I tend to agree with the idea that if you want to be "a Canadian" there comes a time when you should try living in Canada. (My wife is giving me a hard time about how much I want to be a Canadian because I could not cheer without qualification for the Canadian hockey team when they were playing against the Americans . . . she would not accept, as sufficient, that I wholeheartedly cheer for the Canadian curling team even when going against the Americans.) ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 1:06pm
| lol yup.....it's hard to find good jobs these days but nevertheless, one should not give up PR status that easily....after all the economy will improve in the future.... |
Posted By: otcer
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 10:35am
| Thanks guys for all the valuable info. One more question in regards to the OHIP card (ontario)...what documents do I need to apply for one? |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 11:28am
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otcer, Check www.serviceontario.ca for ALL the details. |
Posted By: nadhwaryu
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 8:08am
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Hi!
My Name is Nitin, I got my PR Status in May 2005. I have stayed from 8 May to 16 Aug 2005 for 3 & 1/2 Months in 2005 then after I came back in May 2008 and stayed for about six - 6 months. I have sponsored my family in 2008 and they got pr status. I came back to India in end of Nov. 2008.
My wife and Son were came to Canada in June 2009 and still they are living there. My son is studying there. I have not comleted 2 years of stay there to retain PR ststus.
Can i visit canada before May 2010 i.e. in April 2010 for 3 to 4 months.
Pl. help me in this regard what action I have to initiated to my visit to Canada.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 2:04am
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You are subject to being asked questions regarding meeting the residency requirements. If the examining officer is not satisfied that you meet the 730 days in five years requirement, the officer will most likely make a report which will be reviewed by the "minister's delegate." However, that may very well occur on the spot, there at the POE. Nonetheless, so long as you are still legally a PR, they must allow you entry into Canada. Even if the minister's delegate issues a "removal order" you can appeal and so long as the appeal is pending (it can take quite some time) the "removal" is of no force, so you retain your PR status and can remain in Canada. See especially the operational manual about "loss of permanent resident status" at" http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf But also the other "enforcement" related manuals regarding admissibility, ENF 1 and ENF 2, linked at: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/index.asp You should, however, be prepared to argue H & C grounds for retaining your PR status upon your attempt to enter Canada . . . and if they fail there, at that stage, to urge them on appeal. See the operational manuals relative to enforcement, including in particular those relating to admissibility and PR ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: dmj
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2010 at 3:42pm
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Hey Guys
I m new in this forum and had a very different situation which I need expertise guidance from yu all.I immigrated in april,2007,from U.A.E,where I was working, with my spouse n 3 children 20,17and 16 years at that time.I m a doctor by profession,55years age stayed for 3 months and due to tight position of jobs for the doctors I decided to go back alone n work in U.A.E.In these years I kept coming and going till now and accumulated 6 months of stay out of 2 years requirement of preserving the PR satus.I have still 2 years to go but I got the opportunity of getting U.A.E nationality where they dont allow dual nationality and I have to surrender my ppt.My Q is that now if I wish to come to Canada to see my family with my new U.A.E ppt then how I would be able to since the immigration visa was issued on my Pak ppt and PR card also showing citizen of Pakistan.Is there any way to solve this problem? Prompt replyis highly appreciated.
dmj |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2010 at 6:13pm
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You only have to surrender your pakistan passport to UAE authorities. Not the Canadian PR card. Keep the PR card with you. You can then come to Canada on UAE passport and PR card. I doubt if it will be a problem. Even if a UAE national does not have a PR status, they do not require a visa to visit Canada. So technically you can come here and then apply to modify your PR card to show new citizenship... |
Posted By: dmj
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 11:23am
| Thanks a lot canvis for your reply.I hope you r right but travelling with a ppt showing different nationality than the PR card will not be objectionable by the immigration authorities as well as the airline agencies? Further UAE and other Gulf countries do require a visit visa for Canada. |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 7:54pm
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Once you obtain your UAE passport, then try to contact Canadian consulate/embassy regarding this question and see what they have to say. I don't think it should be an issue though. Worst case, you apply for a Travel Document to return to Canada and then once here, apply for a new PR card to show updated nationality. |
Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 3:20am
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One important issue may be proof of identity. So long as your documents establish your identity, and *you* are a PR, they will issue you a travel document if you need one (which you will need, if you do not have the PR card, in order to board a flight destined for Canada). Likewise, at the POE, regardless of what documents you have, if you can positively establish your identity, as a PR you are entitled to entry. If you are carrying the PR card, identity could still be an issue if something suggests to them that the person presenting the PR card is not the person named on it. I am not sure what would trigger that sort of inquiry, but it should not be too troublesome if it happens, you simply explain your circumstances and they do some cross-checking in databases until they are satisfied of your identity . . . can happen pretty quickly. That process probably takes place more often than people realize, the officer taking the time to ask some additional questions while the computer is generating this and that information for the officer to compare and affirm your identity. No big deal. Even the real frauds seem to slide past too easily.  Actually "identity" is one of the most important issues CBSA and CIC officers are trained to sniff out, one of the most diligently and frequently scrutinized issues -- usually easily, quickly resolved with a brief comparison of identity documents, appearance, certain identifying characteristics (brown eyes in travel document, brown eyes in computer version on their monitor, and the guy standing there has brown eyes . . . and so on) and the circumstances. But if there is any reason to doubt identity or the "status" of the person subject of the query (that is, a question as to whether they are the individual who is indeed a PR), that can result in a fairly intrusive encounter which can last for an indeterminate period of time . . . but only until they establish identity or *determine* a fraudulent identity. Identity issues can be tricky. And surprising. My worst border experience was at a land POE going into the States. My passport was expired but an expired American passport is still prima facie evidence of identity and citizenship (and this was long before passports became required, when only proper ID and a birth certificate were sufficient). I probably triggered alarms in some other way (it was not long after 9/11, and there was a confluence of circumstances that probably seemed incongruous to them . . . though it was definitely a way over the top over-reaction) but I ended up being detained and having this brute, armed to the hilt, screaming at the top of his lungs not six inches from my face. They claimed I was not "who" I was purporting to be. That is, they doubted my "identity." Not much I could do but shrug and let it play out, as calmly as I could possibly remain. In the end they said "sorry" and added that I should "understand" (given the events on 9/11), I said no, I did not, but I was anxious to be on my way. ------------- Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions. BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 8:51pm
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Well I do believe CIC/CBSA at the POE are familiar with this kind of issues. What has happened in this case is that: -He has acquired another(new) nationality [UAE] -He has lost previous nationality [Pakistan] It is best to apply for a new PR card to reflect the new nationality. For that he will have to go to Canada (either fly with UAE passport and PR card) or obtain a Travel Document from Canadian mission. Either way, the Canadian mission should be able to guide him further on that..... |
Posted By: dmj
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 11:13pm
| Thank you so much canvis and dpenabill for your deeply thought views.I appreciate that and I will definitely consider those.Further my spouse n children who are already in the process of applying their citizenship application and if God willing after sometime they get their citizenship, then considering my situation how they are going to help me?Thanks once again. |
Posted By: canvis2006
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 3:45pm
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Since they are already in Canada their status is not in any issue. Once you obtain your UAE passport, contact the nearest Canadian mission by visiting in-person or by fax inquiry, etc to sort out your issues. |