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Issues with posts in Citizenship forum

Printed From: Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Comments or Suggestions
Forum Description: Give us your comments or suggestions on the site or the forum.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11457
Printed Date: 25 Oct 2020 at 1:26am


Topic: Issues with posts in Citizenship forum
Posted By: Wael55
Subject: Issues with posts in Citizenship forum
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 12:44pm
Why would an admin delete my thread titled "Twitter conversation between Mr. Kenney and I" ?



Replies:
Posted By: polarbear
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 12:50pm
My thread was also deleted yesterday Angry

We did not post anything offensive.

There is no good reason why our threads should get deleted.


Angry


Posted By: edmonton2011
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 12:52pm
Wael, I think your post was moved here:
http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11416&title=all-rq-applicant-please-join-us-On-twitter - http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11416&title=all-rq-applicant-please-join-us-On-twitter


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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9o70015IRPdFl6MnhXV0VZbnN1YnZWLXpld0Vya1E - Timeline spreadsheet

Rec'd: Sep 01, '11
In proc: Jan 24, '12
Test: Apr 25, '13
Oath: Jul 1, '13


Posted By: Wael55
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by edmonton2011 edmonton2011 wrote:

Wael, I think your post was moved here:
http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11416&title=all-rq-applicant-please-join-us-On-twitter - http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11416&title=all-rq-applicant-please-join-us-On-twitter

makes sense...I will post additional tweets on the thread you mentioned edmonton. THX pal!


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 2:33pm
Another sidebar: I also moved some recent posts to a topic in another forum for making comments and suggestions, these particular posts moved to http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11457&PID=191838&title=issues-with-posts-in-citizenship-forum#191838 - Issues with posts in Citizenship forum topic.

I suppose that more than a few who participate in this conference/forum regarding Citizenship in particular are not much familiar with the rest of the site, and so may not be aware that there is a separate forum for discussing the way the forums are managed.

There is a separate conference, for example, for making complaints about abusive posts.

Similarly, another for raising questions or such about spam posts.

And a more general conference for making comments or suggestions.

So, for example, if someone thinks their post has been deleted or moved or such inappropriately, the place to bring that up is in that conference.

Again, I am asking for some help in this regard. I do not have the time to substantively monitor new topics, let alone new posts, so it is not as if I can reasonably moderate on that level. It is far, far better if participants here value the site and help keep it useful through self-enforcement.

Again, I have been doing a little of this in the last couple days more or less as a reminder and for illustrative purposes. I do not have the time to do this with any sustained regularity.

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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: vefabuyuk
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 5:27pm
Well, just so that he wont be one, I should appear to be of the same opinion of him.
 
Ladies and gentleman,
 
I think CIC is doing its best to process the applications. There is nothing intentional against applicants. Contacting MPs or media is not gonna help at all. Just wait 3 (to qualify)+2 (for routine application)+4( for RQ processing)+ 1 (for judge)+10 year  in total and you shall all be ciizens. Patience is a virtue :) I am sure "well qualified applicants" shouldnt take 48 months. Maybe 47 months because CIC has internal memos. CIC is working really hard. Please dont make their ust hard than it is.


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From the Phillipines. In Canada since 2003. Architect. Landed in 2008 March.


Posted By: mightyman
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by vefabuyuk vefabuyuk wrote:

Well, just so that he wont be one, I should appear to be of the same opinion of him.
 
Ladies and gentleman,
 
I think CIC is doing its best to process the applications. There is nothing intentional against applicants. Contacting MPs or media is not gonna help at all. Just wait 3 (to qualify)+2 (for routine application)+4( for RQ processing)+ 1 (for judge)+10 year  in total and you shall all be ciizens. Patience is a virtue :) I am sure "well qualified applicants" shouldnt take 48 months. Maybe 47 months because CIC has internal memos. CIC is working really hard. Please dont make their ust hard than it is.




I honestly don't know what dpenabil's opinion is, because I can't read most of his posts. My eyes get tired and I don't have the patience. If you have the patience to read all his never-ending posts, I am sure you can easily wait for your citizenship for three or four yrs!


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 12:22pm


For the Citizenship Forum:


Notice: New, redundant collateral topics will be DELETED.

Any new topics addressing collateral subjects for which there is an existing topic will not be locked. They will be DELETED. All posts in such a topic will thus be LOST.

Obviously there will be a lot of flexibility in this regard. This is not intended to affect new users who are creating a topic to post a query directly about some aspect of Canadian Citizenship (remember this forum is about citizenship, not just grants of citizenshp, let alone just applications for a grant of citizenship); I will not delete such new topics. Indeed, I will distinguish between new participants (giving lots of slack) and regular users (who I will expect to know better and to behave better and if they don't I will assume their intent is to deliberately disrupt the forum, with predictable results) and generally I will not be draconian in how I go about this.


You can help. Please do.

I would appreciate the cooperation of participants here, and could really use some help.


If a new topic is posted that is about a subject that is already covered, please, please, post only a link or the url to the topic where it is already covered, with perhaps a note stating that response is posted in that already existing topic. Thus, any response to the post in the new topic could be posted in the already existing topic following a quote of the post in the newly created topic.

I am not asking that this be done exclusively. And, actually if this was done fairly regularly relative to just collateral subjects, that would really help keep the list of topics better organized.





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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: akella
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 12:34am
Originally posted by dpenabill dpenabill wrote:

Wae155:
I moved the above post to this topic.

You can move it to another topic you think is a better fit. There are already numerous topics for news articles, stories about CIC policy including delays and so on. Particularly since this particular story is not at all about citizenship, a new and separate topic is not warranted.

I do not have time to do this every time someone creates a new topic that should be posted in an existing topic, so I hope you and others can follow this example and will help the forum in this way. Thanks.

Also note: This appears to be a copy of the complete article. Preferred approach is to summarize with partial quotation, with link or url to source, rather than copying and posting the entirety of copyrighted material.

Not to challenge the mods, but... there is no real harm in having separate topics for articles & such.  This allows them to get their share of attention & comments and then fade away (by going from the main screen) when the time comes.

Posting in the mainstream topic (like "RQ discussions") comes with the challenge of the post going to the (N minus XX) page of extra-long conversation, where it is likely to stay unnoticed by many casual visitors to the forum.  Even though I personally try to read everything new on this forum, I may accidentally skip post X in a few dozen of new posts added to a particular thread.  New topic, however, is very likely to get noticed - as it stands out.

Edit: important requirement, though, for this new topic - it must have a sensible title


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 11:28am

Quote akella:
Quote Not to challenge the mods, but... there is no real harm in having separate topics for articles & such. This allows them to get their share of attention & comments and then fade away (by going from the main screen) when the time comes.

There is, indeed, no "real harm" done. Same for the dozens of topics I delete almost every day which are blatant spam. They too would fade away.

But not only is the unnecessary proliferation of topics disrupting, for those who are trying to find information already shared in the forum, the ever-increasing number of topics, particularly those which are about matters already discussed, make it more difficult to find pertinent information.

The trend lately is well-apparent, and I am trying to stem that trend, trying to keep discussions in the forum from devolving into a totally disorganized state.

Quote akella:
Quote Posting in the mainstream topic (like "RQ discussions") comes with the challenge of the post going to the (N minus XX) page of extra-long conversation, where it is likely to stay unnoticed by many casual visitors to the forum.

This example is not on point. RQ discussions is, indeed, a general topic. There are, however, numerous other topics about more specific RQ related subjects. I already get complaints that there are too many RQ topics and discussions.

There are, indeed, already numerous redundant RQ related topics, at least three related specifically to leaving Canada after applying for example.

In the meantime, RQ is directly related to Canadian Citizenship, it is a process some applicants for a grant of citizenship are subjected to.

I am not suggesting an anal adherence to using existing topics. I am trying to stem the tide of proliferating redundant topics. How many "news" topics should there be for example?

Quote akella:
Quote Even though I personally try to read everything new on this forum, I may accidentally skip post X in a few dozen of new posts added to a particular thread. New topic, however, is very likely to get noticed - as it stands out.

Not sure what your point is or what to offer in this regard. I am sure I miss many posts. I am always skeptical of anyone who claims to have an exhaustive recall of posts in the forum. It is up to each individual how much they want to follow discussions in the forum.

Again, for example, how many "news" topics should there be? How many topics about twitter/tweeting? (There were three or four started in just the last little while.) How many topics about organizing an action plan? How many about leaving Canada after applying?

Ordinarily I do not have time to explain much.

I am making an effort now in hopes of encouraging some cooperation, some assistance.

Without doing an exact count, there are now somewhere around one thousand and six hundred topics in the Canadian Citizenship forum.

I do not expect participants to be anal about finding an existing topic. I am just hoping that regular users make an effort to help keep the forum better organized and discussions on topic. Part of why this has loomed larger lately is, indeed, because the site is currently under attack from spam on a scale I have not seen here in years, and in conjunction with that there has been an extensive pattern of posting which is either abusive or disruptive. It is not always easy to identify those whose purpose is not sincere and who are deliberately disruptive.

In regards to the latter: Reminder: complaints about abusive posts should be posted in the forum specifically for reporting abuse, in a new topic there with the abusive poster's user name in the topic title. I receive a steady stream of complaints through email, occasionally PMs, but almost never see anyone following the site's guidelines for making the complaint in the abusive posts forum, which is a sub-forum under the Comments or Suggestions forum.

Regarding spam: no need to report blatant, obvious spam, unless it remains for more than three or four days. Blatant spam is obvious and I address it as soon as the next time I log into the site. Avoid clicking on a topic that is obvious spam, and absolutely avoid clicking on any spam links.



Additional reminders:

I do not have time to monitor this stuff anywhere near uniformly or consistently. My recent efforts are mostly in the vein of reminder and example, and I am really, really hoping that those who use this forum regularly will help me in this regard.

Also note that when I do deal with this stuff, if and when I have time (I often do not, thus the inconsistency), ordinarily I will simply move posts or lock topics that drift way off-subject, or I will outright delete topics that contain posts that should be posted in an existing topic. No warning may be given (again, no time). So, please be aware that posts could be moved or even deleted, so for those who want their posts to remain please make an effort to post in an appropriate, existing topic if there is a topic on that subject. This is particularly true for collateral subject matter, not directly about citizenship itself or procedures regarding proof of citizenship, or grants of citizenship.

Note, for example, that the post that triggered this particular discussion, by Wael55, for example, is not about citizenship at all, in addition to being a wholesale copy of copyrighted material which is inappropriate. I should have simply deleted the post and topic. Ordinarily that is what I would do. But I am trying to get those participants here, those who appreciate the opportunity to discussion these matters here, to help and do better without any moderating or monitoring.

The post by Wael55 also brings up the copying of material (or using photos) from another source: please be aware of copyright, and do not post large portions (let alone the entirety) of copyrighted material -- paraphrase, summarize, use partial quotes, the typical lawful way of referring to someone else's writing, photos, or other intellectual property.



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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2013 at 11:38am
ADDTIONAL NOTE: I really am asking for assistance.

On the other hand, persistent disregard of basic protocol will indicate, to me, that the person posting deliberately intends to disrupt. The consequences are predictable.


This applies, as well, to ad hominem. I have made this warning repeatedly. Derision aimed at individuals, public or private, participant here or not, including government officers or personnel, will be deleted without warning. Repeated posting of this sort will result in suspension without warning. Even if it is in response to another post that is, for whatever reason, objectionable, it will be deleted, and if such behavior is repeated the user will be suspended, suspend without warning.

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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2013 at 6:24pm

Quote vefabuyuk:
Quote I created a separate thread for this but somebody deleted. I suspect who that might be but not gonna acknowledge his name or give him attention what he feeds on anyways.


Your posts were not deleted vefabuyuk. The new topic was redundant so the posts were moved. They are in the same topic as your post.

Please try to play by the rules. Repeated disregard for protocol will be interpreted to be a deliberate effort to disrupt the forum. Consequences are predictable.

I think I have given enough examples. As I have warned a few times, new topics that are redundant and collateral to citizenship are subject to summary deletion without warning. I will not be draconian in the way I go about this, but I will not engage in discussion about it either. I am not talking about new users posting questions already covered in another topic. That is OK. I am not talking about having to find topics that have not been active for months. No, no one needs to do that.

Playing games, however, will be interpreted precisely for what it is: a deliberate effort to disrupt the forum. And, again, the consequences for that are predictable.

So far I have been locking some such new topics, or as in this case moving them, but that is for illustrative purposes, so that those who are a bit slower learning have time to catch on, time to grasp the protocol. Soon I will summarily delete such topics.



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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 3:13pm

Please consider what the topic is about when posting.

Please do so regardless of what someone else has posted.

In other words, if a post is off-topic, please do not post a response to it that continues to be off-topic.

Reminder: posts can be quoted and discussed in other topics where appropriate. There are many topics in which the discussion is far ranging, the subject of the discussion wandering into many tangents; what I am asking participants to do is to avoid disrupting topics which have a specific subject matter. (There are no hard and fast guidelines in this regard; some topics are more specific than others, some tangents more appropriate than others. As always, it would be appreciated if users here would help keep specific topics better focused; please be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.)

It is particularly problematic when off-topic posts also violate general posting policies for this site (no spam, no abusive posts -- which means no personal insults, including insinuating insults).

Recent examples of posts which are both off-topic (thus disruptive) and over-the-line abusive:

Originally posted by peter95 peter95 wrote:

sometimes you face such problems in your home country too then your suggestion may be why are you here kill yourself and go back to place where you come from what a thinking
BTW: Suggesting that anyone kill himself or herself is way over the offensive line. That should be readily understood without saying.

Originally posted by mightyman mightyman wrote:

You sound like a troll from outer space.


Originally posted by mightyman mightyman wrote:

Well said! There are too many losers in Canada who suffer from a slave mentality, who never question but always think whatever the government does is right.
(Note that this was in response to the post quoted above that, among other things, suggested to others that they "kill yourself." Note too that while I ordinarily would not pay much attention to references like there "are too many losers in Canada," this too is an example of an insinuating insult that should not be posted in this forum; the severity of the breach is, of course, context driven, so an occasional remark like this in passing would hardly be noticed, let alone generate action taken, but where the context is intended to overtly offend and is part of a pattern, or as in this case is a disruption of the topic, it is clearly over the line. This stuff should be obvious. It pains me to have to explain this stuff.)

Originally posted by mightyman mightyman wrote:

Absolutely. It's sad to see some of the people here quickly learn this cracker attitude, become the mouthpieces of Kenny, and tell fellow immigrants to go back home (after emptying your pockets out).


I have hidden the above posts. I have warned multiple participants here that this kind of posting will not be tolerated. No more warnings will be given to anyone given a warning. But, I want to remind users here that any abusive posting or posting of spam can result in suspending the account and other efforts to block (as best can be done) that individual from returning to the site.

PLEASE HELP! Please avoid being disruptive. Please do not post any insults aimed at anyone (whether overtly or by insinuation, and whether the target is a particular person or is targeted descriptively, whether the target is a participant here or not). Please avoid being abusive or offensive in any way. Please do not respond to abusive posts (or to spam posts either). If you feel compelled to make a comment in response to an insult or otherwise offensive post, please use this Comments & Suggestions Forum to post in.

To be clear: this is NOT a free speech zone. This is a private, proprietary site with guidelines for its use. Play by the rules or do not play.





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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration


Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 3:23pm

The following needs to be clarified:

Quote I have warned multiple participants here that this kind of posting will not be tolerated. No more warnings will be given to anyone given a warning. But, I want to remind users here that any abusive posting or posting of spam can result in suspending the account and other efforts to block (as best can be done) that individual from returning to the site.


I have given warnings. Anyone who has already received a warning will not be warned again. Their options are specifically to play by the rules or do not play. If someone is not entirely sure what this means, what playing by the rules requires, I suggest you make a special effort make certain you do not engage in disrupting topics, to make certain the contents of your posts in no way insult, or imply an insult. (I do not have time to teach basic manners.)

That said: anyone who posts spam or whose post is abusive may be suspended and blocked (to the extent this can be done). NO WARNING IS NECESSARY. That is to say, spam posts or abusive posts may result in a summary suspension of the account with no warning given. (Note that in fact I suspend accounts almost every day without warning, at least several every week.)

Again, to be clear, this is NOT a free speech zone.





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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration



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