Bylaw offence
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Category: Canada Immigration Topics
Forum Name: Family Class Sponsorship
Forum Description: A review of current sponsorship programs (permanent residence) promoting the reunion in Canada of close relatives from abroad.
URL: https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3960
Printed Date: 29 May 2024 at 6:16pm
Topic: Bylaw offence
Posted By: abstractioness
Subject: Bylaw offence
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 12:05pm
On the Background/Declaration form, when it asks about being charged
with/convicted of any offences, I'm wondering if I should put down a
bylaw offence.
I called CIC and they couldn't give me a straight
answer because it's not a traffic violation (the exact offence is
"entering public transit at other than designated passenger entrance"
i.e. I tried to get into the subway station without paying). They
ultimately said "put it down and the immigration official will know
whether it matters or not." When I applied for my work permit a few
years ago I put it down just in case, so now I'm wondering if I DON'T
put it down, they'll think I'm lying..
But the thing is, if I DO put it down unnecessarily, is it going to slow my application?
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Replies:
Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 2:01pm
this is FULL Of duality and adversary subject...let me explain.
This comes under criminality and inadmissibilty. (against you)
but more importantly how to overcome inadmissibilty.(for you)
you have not given some salient material and substantial facts pertaining to the offence for a comprehensive reply. (you can build up a lot more of FOR YOU details depending on those facts)
MINOR SUMMARY offences are not in a straighforward knock out inadmissibility criteria... it is a grey area... and immigration do have a view on it (against you)BUT you can submit mitigating details to kill it in its tracks (for you)
will it slow your processing down .
yes (against you.). .sorry..BUT (for you )you can provide details to diminish that delay to minimum or even barest minimum...
let me explain this.... if you dont provide details then they could potentialy ask you ....a request for further information..with the inherent delay.
note. I am not saying that you are inadmissible.
so if you do put it down....then put ALL of it down not just a bit of it
to overcome it...
good luck
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Posted By: sponge362
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 2:16pm
You should get a criminal check too see if the offense appears, if it doesn't, you are fine - if it does, well then you might have a problem and may need to seek a criminal rehabilitation application - I don't know much about those.
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CIC-V received November 12, 2008.
Started processing December 9, 2008.
Sponsorship approved May 25, 2009
OWP received May 29, 2009
Landed July 2, 2009
PR card arrived August 5, 2009
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Posted By: abstractioness
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 2:38pm
Well, it's a bylaw offence, and when the TTC guy gave me the ticket, he said it won't give me a criminal record because it's just a bylaw offence. I didn't get "arrested" for it, I got a ticket and I had to take it to the provincial court where they process speeding/parking tickets. And then the sentence was suspended, ie the fee was waived, because I pleaded guilty "with excuse."
So I think I'm okay... plus I think for minor offences they say you have to have had 2 in the last 5 years, and I don't even know if bylaw qualifies for those. I just hope it doesn't slow down processing too much.
Anyway if I put it on my work permit application a few years ago and there was no problem, you'd think it wouldn't matter...?
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 6:12pm
its so minor its hardly worth quoting. its almost not even a criminal offence, where you need not be worried too much about. its not an inadmissibility issue. please dont worry....it is not even an arrestable offence...
one thing to note..(this may surprise you)it is not the offence that is important it was the manner in which it was disposed off and the punishment given that determines the further dealing of this, where fortunately for you, it worked out in your favour...
it seems it is spent anyway... it seems you are covered on all and multiple angles from this potential risk
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 6:26pm
under RO Act 1974 UK minor spent offences become disregarded and you should be treated as IF the offence never occured. it should be disregarded by the imm process. it is not even a conviction.
if your police cert is otherwise clean and if you meet all other criteria and you presented all the evidence then I believe your case will not be delayed..
cases get delayed when the file throws up details which compromise standard criteria.
................................
if your police cert says .. NO TRACE ..be prepared to provide just a bit more details. This applies to every one not just you..and on any application which has weak spots
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Posted By: abstractioness
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 7:12pm
Well, it wouldn't show up on the UK certificate -- it happened in Toronto. But I don't think it would show up on RCMP check either because supposedly it doesn't go on any criminal record, since it's a provincial bylaw offence. I'm not so much worried about the certificates as putting it down on the Background check. But I suppose I'm just being paranoid.
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 10:02am
dont worry
you will be ok
when its all over with happy ending you will be saying what was all that fuss about?
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 10:04am
IF YOU WERE NOT CHARGED
AND NOT CONVICTED
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MENTION IT
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Posted By: rbenoit
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 10:40am
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This should have no more impact than any other by-law infraction.
As long as the ticket has been paid there is no criminal offence regarding this matter.
The only time this may be a problem is if the ticket was left unpaid and it went to court then went to collection agency. Then maybe it could be a problem as an unpaid judgement against you but it would be a problem in the financial category and not criminal.
My opinion anyway.
Cheers!!!
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 10:52am
yes.... rbenoit,
thats right
remember I said earlier
it is the manner in which it was disposed off that has a greater voracity now
it ended well ...
THE END
and they all lived happily ever after
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Posted By: abstractioness
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 5:19pm
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Well, I was charged and convicted -- I pleaded guilty. It's just that the fine was waived.
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Posted By: sami55
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 6:33pm
ok
still the extent of it is still summary
and not a serious offence. but it reinforces my point about over coming it then...
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Posted By: abstractioness
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 8:23pm
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I think the offence has to fall under an "Act of Parliament" i.e. federal legislation, whereas city by-laws about traffic and transportation rules and that kind of thing only fall under municipal or provincial legislation... I'm just so paranoid about this application. But as I said before, you'd think that if it didn't cause any problems with my work permit, it wouldn't affect this.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 2:24am
If you had not previously "reported" it, I would have thought it to be, and treated it is as such (and thus not report it), as the equivalent of a parking ticket or traffic infraction (not to be confused with more serious traffic offenses like reckless driving, driving while impaired and so on), which is not criminal, not even a "summary offence." Many jurisdictions refer to such things as "infractions," though that can be confused with how the term "infractions" is used in other jurisdictions. But it really sounds like the equivalent of a parking ticket. (I suspect there is a more serious charge possible that is essentially a "theft" or an attempted theft, of services, but it sounds more like the equivalent of a parking ticket or a ticket for having junk in the yard, and with no arrest, no "criminal" record, that really sounds like all it is.)
But you have previously reported it. So I would report it again, to remain consistent. If this is the only infraction of the law you've ever had, it is not going to derail the application. It should have no effect. Reporting it should not hurt. Being inconsistent can hurt (then they start looking deeper, and that can take time).
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Posted By: abstractioness
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 4:37pm
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Thought you all might like to know that I just talked to a very sensible CIC agent. She said that it doesn't sound like it's criminal but to check for sure, and then to check "NO" in answer to the background declaration question (to avoid raising a red flag) but then in the box underneath put it down anyway, saying "from what I've read, this is a non-criminal offence but I put it down on my work permit so here it is". And I just checked the Ontario website and TTC violations fall under quote provincial, "minor (non-criminal) offences". So... I think I'm in the clear. Even if it slows down my application at least I don't have to worry about it ultimately affecting the outcome.
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Posted By: dpenabill
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 1:07am
That makes a lot of sense and sounds like the way to go.
Quite a few people around here may be shocked to hear that a "sensible CIC agent" was reached via phone. I'm not. I am glad you got a reasonable answer.
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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