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What Options? Out of Canada for 4 years out of 5

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commonman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 9:53am
Dear All,

I first came to Canada in 2005 for a month when I got my PR card and then left the country. I came back in 2009 and have started to live here now with the intention of staying here. At the end of 5 years, I would have only completed 18 month (1.5 years) in Canada.

Do I need to pack my bags, or I have some options to stay here? Should I wait until my PR card comes for renewal or should I start some process before that?


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blackpearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackpearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 11:03am
If you're already in Canada, you could stay and continue fulfilling your obligation. The 5 year is a rolling five year. This means you can't really renew your PR card at the end of your 5 year, since you will only fulfilled 1.5 out of 5 years. You would have to wait a few more months until you completed 2 years out of the past 5 years, before you can renew the PR card. It is ok to let the PR card expire and continue to stay in Canada, and renew it at a later time. PR card is only needed when you travel outside and need to return to Canada.
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ads7484 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ads7484 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 3:03pm

thanks for the info-helpful to know, but i scanned through a couple of the other posts and gauged that yes, you can still enter canada even if you cannot fulfil the 730 days (as long as u have a valid PR card) but the immigration offer can still refer your case for investigation and you might not get your PR renewed

so, in theory, i personally got my PR in april 2009 but i can leave and dont need to stay in canada but only need to come back by march 2014 and then i will be allowed in, will stay for 2 years (and thereby renew my PR card) and a year later after i complete 3 years..i can apply for citizenship(provided i dont ever need to leave canada)?
 
is this correct? is there anything on the official CIC website which mirrors this view?
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blackpearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackpearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by ads7484 ads7484 wrote:

thanks for the info-helpful to know, but i scanned through a couple of the other posts and gauged that yes, you can still enter canada even if you cannot fulfil the 730 days (as long as u have a valid PR card) but the immigration offer can still refer your case for investigation and you might not get your PR renewed

so, in theory, i personally got my PR in april 2009 but i can leave and dont need to stay in canada but only need to come back by march 2014 and then i will be allowed in, will stay for 2 years (and thereby renew my PR card) and a year later after i complete 3 years..i can apply for citizenship(provided i dont ever need to leave canada)?
 
is this correct? is there anything on the official CIC website which mirrors this view?

Yes, this is correct.
CIC will only check the 5 years preceding the date you sign your citizenship application. 

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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2010 at 3:21am
Quote so, in theory, i personally got my PR in april 2009 but i can leave and dont need to stay in canada but only need to come back by march 2014 and then i will be allowed in, will stay for 2 years (and thereby renew my PR card) and a year later after i complete 3 years..i can apply for citizenship(provided i dont ever need to leave canada)?


NO, NO. This only works if you are actually allowed to re-enter Canada with no investigation, no process commenced.!!! If you leave now, upon attempting to re-enter Canada in March 2014 you may be questioned about meeting your residency requirement, and while they cannot refuse you entry they most likely would commence an investigation leading to proceedings to revoke your PR status. After any extended absence from Canada, upon seeking entry a PR may very well be questioned about meeting the residency requirement and if it is impossible for them to meet the residency requirement for the first five years, an investigation is likely, followed by proceeding to revoke PR and for removal.

Basically, for the first five years, upon seeking entry they can look at how much time the PR has stayed in Canada and how much time is left in the five year period; if those two time periods add up to 730 or more days, the PR should be allowed entry with no investigation, no proceedings to revoke PR. If, however, say the PR had previously spent 400 days in Canada, then leaves, then seeks re-entry with less than 330 days before the end of their first five year period, BOOM, there are not enough days left to meet the residency requirement, so an investigation and process is likely to be triggered.

If in this scenario, the PR is nonetheless allowed entry without an investigation being triggered, then yes, all they have to do is stay in Canada until they have accummulated two years time within the immediately preceding five years, and then thereafter they are good to go.

If at any time a PR attempts to enter Canada and they have been absent from Canada (and not living with a Canadian citizen spouse or falling under one of the other exceptions) for three years plus a day, they have failed to meet their residency requirement and again that will trigger investigation and process to revoke PR.

Generally:
For a PR physically present in Canada, CIC will rely upon only the five year period immediately preceding the point in time at issue when assessing whether the residency requirement for PR is met, two out of five years and with allowances for time living with a Canadian citizen spouse abroad. (So, as blackpearl earlier indicated, a PR currently in Canada but technically not in compliance with the residency requirement simply has to avoid any reason for investigation until they reach having been in Canada two out of the last five years.)

For Citizenship qualification they look at the previous four years -- a PR must be physically present in Canada for three of the four years immediately preceding the date the Citizenship application is submitted. Obviously, if the PR has been in Canada three out of the immediately preceding four years, there is no question about satisfying the residency requirement for PR.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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blackpearl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackpearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2010 at 12:21pm
Hi dpenabill, you are absolutely correct. I stand corrected.
The scenario will only work if a person was allowed entry back to Canada without further questioning, in which the person should consider himself lucky.
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MajidS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MajidS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 1:33pm
I maybe totally wrong here, but hasn't the OP already lost PR status, because CIC says that if "you are outside of Canada for more than 3 years in any given 5 year period, measured from the day when you re-enter Canada, you have lost your PR status" ??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 3:45pm
Yes technically he is out of status, only that he hadn't gotten caught and investigated by CBSA when he returned to Canada. And worse it seems he is thinking of doing the same thing all over again.
 
Originally posted by MajidS MajidS wrote:

I maybe totally wrong here, but hasn't the OP already lost PR status, because CIC says that if "you are outside of Canada for more than 3 years in any given 5 year period, measured from the day when you re-enter Canada, you have lost your PR status" ??




Edited by Beaver - 09 Mar 2010 at 3:47pm
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 2:39am
Quote I maybe totally wrong here, but hasn't the OP already lost PR status, because CIC says that if "you are outside of Canada for more than 3 years in any given 5 year period, measured from the day when you re-enter Canada, you have lost your PR status" ??


No. No one automatically loses PR status. A legal process has to be followed to revoke one's PR status. That process can and will be commenced in some circumstances (such as a PR appearing at a POE seeking entry and it appears that they have not met the residency requirement), and it may be commenced in other circumstances (a criminal charge oft times is an event triggering an investigation leading to process being commenced).

That is, a PR continues to have PR status (and must be allowed entry into Canada) unless and until proceedings to revoke PR have been finalized.

Being out of Canada for three years only means the PR has failed to meet PR residency requirements, thus constituting a basis for the commencement of PR revocation proceedings. There are cases where a PR absent from Canada for many years (more than five) surrendered his PR card to a Canadian Embassy but later obtained a visitor visa to Canada, and once in Canada stayed for two years prior to the commencement of proceedings to revoke PR and remove him . . . he won on appeal. He had been in Canada for more than two years, and it is the most recent five year period that counts. And since there never was any formal proceedings to revoke his PR, he was, well, technically still a PR, and a PR who had met the residency requirement by being in Canada for two years out of the last five.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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