PR card renewal/passprt copies/exit/entry record |
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jogruni
Senior Member Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Location: BC Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Hi,
I am new to the group, because I am just in the process of writing and filing my first renewal aplication, so I was already gathering information on the renewal. But I have to add a comment to the days calculation:
I think you can calculate a few more day. I found a document : http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf This document seems to be a guideline on how to determine the residency status. It seems official and it is from the cic website. Nevertheless I am not sure, if it is still valid. In 6.4 it clearly says: ...For the purpose of calculating the number of days to comply with the residency obligation in IRPA So if you look at the time July 7 - July 22, assuming these are the travel dates (flight left some time on that day), both days, the 7th and the 22nd count as a full day. So this periode adds up to 16 days, not 14. I think in a case where the travel dates can be proved by passport stamps or tickets and the number of days are marginal around the magic 730 days (or 1095 days outside) it might help to refer to this document to back up your application. But I would not already use it in the initial application. In the application you have to enter only month and year + number of days absent, so at that point, they do not yet want more detailed dates and calculation. Edited by jogruni - 15 Aug 2011 at 11:29am |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Thank you for finding that reference.
Although, actually it is in ENF 23 "Loss of Permanent Resident Status" at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf, page 11. So, that does add in more days . . . essentially one more for each trip. (The citizenship residency calculation in contrast counts only one or the other.) |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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jogruni
Senior Member Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Location: BC Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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It really seems that there is a difference in the calculation
fort the purpose od dertermination of the Permanent Resident status and
Citizenship. I asked the webmaster and got the following reply:
So "absence day" is slightly different for PR and citizenship. To be safe, you should meet the citizenship requirements.
BTW my reference has a newer date than yours. Edited by jogruni - 16 Aug 2011 at 1:21am |
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kfq
Junior Member Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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6.4. Day
Section 27(2) of the Interpretation Act governs the calculation of time limits in federal statutes. Where a statute refers to a number of days between two events (and precedes the number of days with the words “at least”), both the day of occurrence of the first event as well as the day of occurrence of the second event are to be counted in calculating the number of days. For the purpose of calculating the number of days to comply with the residency obligation in IRPA A28(2)(a), a day includes a full day or any part of a day that a permanent resident is physically present in Canada. Any part of a day spent in Canada, or otherwise in compliance with A28(2)(a), is to be counted as one full day for the purpose of calculating the 730 days in a five-year period. this definition I found in OP-10 |
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Naseh
Junior Member Joined: 24 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Hi I just want to ask one more question I am safe after my obligattion is over that means according to the calculation you did the days are completed in the mid october.After that date is it possible to attach another ticket with the paying reciept so that they can make it urgent.Please guide me with this and is it also possible to reapply after that date.
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Hard one to call Naseh. I suspect that your history now will trigger at least some level of scrutiny as to satisfying the residency obligation, so I doubt an urgent application will be processed urgently. But I do not know. This is just my guess.
See the full discussion regarding kfq's situation, especially the parts about the fact that an urgent application alerts CIC to the applicant's intent to leave Canada, and if the applicant just barely meets the RO, many such applicants would soon be in breach of the RO again after obtaining a new PR card. Remember, just having a new PR card does not cure being in breach of the residency obligation. If you leave and subsequently attempt to return to Canada, and they ascertain you have been absent for more than 1095 days in the previous five years, you are in breach of the RO and subject to being issued a removal order NO MATTER what the validity date of your PR card is. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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Harmonia
Senior Member Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 609 |
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"many such applicants would soon be in breach of the RO again after obtaining a new PR card"... A little confused here... if the PR card is new, it's generally good for 5 years. If I had 2 years (730 days) in Canada when I applied for the card, and assuming I didn't leave until I got the new one, then left Canada once I got the renewed PR card - I would not be in breach of the residency obligations for 3 years plus a day after I left. I guess that could be considered 'soon' my some accounts given various life situations.
Dpen -- is the point you're trying to make that CIC does not look favourably upon those people that maintian their PR status, but seem to have questionable intent to actually settle in Canada? (i.e. it looks bad if you're only here for 730 days out of every 5 years)
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jogruni
Senior Member Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Location: BC Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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This post explains in detail what you are asking for: http://www.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7625&PID=148478&title=how-to-count-days#148478 But again a valid PR-card has nothing to do with complying with RO or residency status!!!
If the speed limit in a city is 50km/h, why should it be suspicious, if you are driving 49km/h ??? More than 730 days in Canada within prevous 5 years since you became PR and you are complying (I know it is a bit more complicated - see above link). Less than 730 days within last 5 years and you depend on mercy in H&C area. But as long as you are inside Canada, nobody will question the RO and you do not even have to have a valid PR card. But when entering Canada, your RO might be checked. Edited by jogruni - 23 Aug 2011 at 11:28am |
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Harmonia
Senior Member Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 609 |
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I'm not questioning the validity of the PR status, I understand that you have PR status until you lose it, and there are only a few ways that you lose it (removal order, voluntary revokation of PR, becoming a citizen, etc.).
I was more interested in why I keep seeing that it's good (advisable) to have more than 730 days when applying for the card. Have there been people who were refused the renewal of their PR card that have had 730 days? Or is it just that if you're right on the edge, you're opening up reason for CIC to do an investigation to validate your phyical presence here in Canada?
I've only been reading this section of the forum (Preserving PR) for about a year - so I don't have all the historical data (from the previous site). Have there been many cases of people getting scrutinized because they are 'just at' 730 days... ?
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Citizenship App Sent: December 2012
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Ditto jogruni
It has been said often but it seems to not be that well grasped: The validity date on a PR card has NOTHING to do with whether or not a PR is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Note that in contrast, for example, when the PR card is expired, that does not affect the status of the PR. A PR is still a PR, and as long as they remain "admissible" their status is secure, no PR card necessary. (A PR becomes inadmissible if in breach of the RO or if they have engaged in serious criminality or are otherwise a security threat.) The confusion, usually, is rooted in the idea that a person with a newly issued PR card, valid for another five years, has five more years in which to accumulate 730 days in Canada. WRONG, not true. Compliance with the RO is based on the immediately preceding five years, and, again, the validity dates on the PR card are irrelevant.. It is probably true, as most reports suggest, that a PR with a relatively newly issued PR card, is a lot, lot less likely to be questioned about meeting the RO. And, even those who are in breach but have a valid PR card seem to be given quite a bit of leeway at the POE. But the key is that any PR who has been closely examined in secondary about complying with the RO, or had to submit additional documents regarding the RO in the course of applying for and obtaining a new PR card, probably has some entry into his or her record, into FOSS if it was a POE secondary examination, that will alert POE personnel that compliance with the RO has been an issue in the past, and thus, depending on the circumstances, always depending on the circumstances, may be questioned about meeting the RO upon approaching a POE and at that point what matters is how many days the PR has been in Canada during the immediately preceding five years AND how long the PR is valid for is totally irrelevant. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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