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"Are you living with someone"

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biren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Are you living with someone"
    Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 4:53pm
Hello there,

In sponsoring spouse, there's question no. 12 in Sponsor Questionnaire (IMM5540e) "Are you living with someone?"  


I live with someone who had put a advert on the internet - he wanted to rent out a room (since he has 2 rooms and is using only one).

That wise, he saves on rent and so do I (since I don't have to get my own apartment).

What should I answer in this question? I don't have any relationship with this person.

Thanks.

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scylla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scylla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 5:06pm
No.
Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010
Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010
Processing started: 08/19/2010
Passport request: 10/01/2010
Landed: 10/05/2010
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 6:12pm

I would have simply answered "yes," and said to be sure to accurately identify the relationship (probably "landlord-tenant" or "cotenant"), but since scylla has given what I believe is a very wrong answer, I will still say "yes," but further offer another one of my long, long explanations:


Actually, "no" would be a misrepresentation since you are in fact sharing a residence with someone, which is what "living with" is referring to.

It is almost never a good idea to make any misrepresentation. (In the circumstances you describe, one can argue such a misrepresentation is not material, since the truthful answer would not change your eligibility to sponsor, but it is relevant because it is asked and therefore such a misrepresentation is still a very bad idea.)

Yes, of course, the honest answer may depend on the precise circumstances, of which there are many, many variations and possibilities, in some of which "no" might be the truthful response. But, if you are sharing a residential unit with someone, regardless of the number of rooms and regardless of how the respective rooms are used, and regardless of the what the arrangement is (as in, does not matter if it is your mother or a cotenancy motivated by purely economical circumstance),the correct/truthful answer is "yes."

If the person is has a familial relationship, you identify that as the relationship; if it is (which this appears to be) a cotenancy motivated by purely economical circumstance, the nature of the arrangement should be referred to. For example, if this person owns the whole unit or is the only person with a lease arrangement with the owner, pursuant to which you are either renting the room from this person or sub-renting it, the relationship is "landlord-tenant;" if the two of you are sharing the cost paid to the owner or landlord, the relationship is "cotenants."

Note: This question is not asking merely whether or not you are cohabitating with someone with whom you have a conjugal relationship, but is asking the applicant to disclose all persons sharing the same residence (and obviously so, since there is space to fill in the names of six people with whom one might be living, and if there are more it specifically instructs the applicant to use a separate sheet of paper).

One might quibble, and make an argument based on the particulars if no living space is shared, but that would be fact-based. But, again, if you and another person live at the same postal address, there is a pretty strong presumption that you share the residence, as in, that you live with one another. On the other hand, if there are indeed distinct units, which would allow different addresses, one could honestly say "no" with little hestitation. Typical example of the latter is a basement unit, so the address of the primary residence could be, say, "2123 Maple Avenue," and the basement could have a separate address: "2123 Maple Avenue - Bsmt." Relative to the latter, the answer can and should be "no."

Bottomline:

Not enough facts are shared to really know, but it appears that you (1) do live with someone, and (2) that the "relationship" is either "landlord-tenant" or "cotenants." If you share part of the unit (bathroom, or kitchen, or such) then it pretty certain that you do share a residence and thus that you live with someone.

In which case you must answer "yes."

That said, I understand the temptation to answer "no." Who is going to know? investigate this? find out? Odds are very high this is something one can easily answer "no" with minimal fear of being exposed for making a misrepresentation (unless and until, for example, one of the other answers either of you gives in the various forms, or until the PR applicant refers to a roommate or housemate in an interview, or until just a routine background check notes a telephone number for a person not you at your address, or so on). And in addition to the good odds of not getting caught, it is indeed very arguable not a material misrepresentation anyway, since even if CIC is made aware of this person sharing the residence it would not make you ineligible to sponsor.

And there is indeed some incentive to fudge this, depending on how strong the overall case is relative to the genuine relationship issue. One of the reasons (not the only reaon though) this question is asked is to explore potential relationships that would conflict with being in an exclusive conjugal relationship with the person being sponsored . . . if, for example, the "cotenant" was a former spouse, that is going to raise flags and concerns. And, yes, in general, sharing a residence with a member of the opposite sex might trigger some questions . . . but no presumptions. This sort of arrangement, after all, is very, very common these days. Personally I'd be inclined to add a separate sheet more explicitly detailing the commercial not conjugal nature of the relationship. We added several sheets of explanation to our application forms (we are an older couple and as happens in the course of life, things get complicated, entangled, and rather than leave things to chance and the random inferential propensities of bureaucrats, we explained those things which might be possibly misinterpreted.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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biren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 6:47pm
Thanks a million for taking so much of your time to respond to this.

I will answer this as:



Yes.

Name - Mr Smith (for example)
Ralationship to you - "landlord-tenant" (Mr Smith is landlord, I am the tenant"







Only question, is since I rent the room from this person (say Mr Smith), I pay him in cash, so don't have any documentary proof like cheques etc - would that be an issue ??


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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2011 at 3:53am
Main thing may be to add a supplemental explanation describing the arrangement, emphasizing that the relationship is merely a financial one and that you do not otherwise share expenses in the way you would if you were in a conjugal relationship or "cohabitating." Perhaps a letter from him explaining he rents a room of his to you would be a good idea. Just need to make it clear that there is no conjugal relationship whatsoever between the two of you, that it is a rental arrangement only. No need to go into lengthy detail, but enough detail to describe what it is how and how it was entered into, what the terms are, that sort of thing.

Frankly, there is a risk it could be seen as an issue . . . that is, that someone might infer "cohabitation" and from that conclude that the relationship between you and your partner, whom you are sponsoring, is not "exclusive," which would mean the relationship is not a qualifying one. If you are upfront and clear about it, that should overcome this risk (and as I said in my previous post, the key there may be rooted in how strong the case is that you and the person you are sponsoring are in a genuine relationship).



Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Felix07Richerd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Felix07Richerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2011 at 8:43am
Hi,

I live with someone who had put a advert on the internet - he wanted to rent out a room (since he has 2 rooms and is using only one).

That wise, he saves on rent and so do I (since I don't have to get my own apartment).

You don't need to worry you can select your apartments across Ontario, if you are interested in Ottawa apartments for rent or Hamilton apartments for rent or Sarnia apartments for rent
Just click and throw away your tension of rental aparments

What should I answer in this question? I don't have any relationship with this person.

Don't need to worry, be happy :)

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