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730 days in Canada - how do they keep track?????

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canvis2006 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canvis2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 8:16pm
yeah i know when I was returning to Canada from Portugal(Lisbon) after a short visit to my parents, the airline agent at airport check-in desk swiped my PR card several times.......not sure if that info was transmitted to CBSA/CIC system but I asked Canada customs to stamp my passport, he asked the reason so i told him it's for citizenship purposes....he did not mind....
The guy stamped my passport with "Canada Customs" stamp, with date and airport name.
I also had Portuguese Immigration stamp my passport on both arrival/exit from Portugal.....so the stamps in passport can clearly show my trips.
My US visits are also stamped in passport, as is the american visa.My visa was issued after the "security clearance" so i am also required to get a departure stamp from US immigration at each visit....so I got stamps to prove my entry/exit to USA......

So make sure you try to get the stamps from countries you enter/exit.
It makes everything easier.....for us and for CIC
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ecs View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ecs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 11:24am
Canvis, What is your Security CLearance from the US?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MajidS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 7:53pm
Passport stamps are only a secondary check for CIC when it comes to calculating PR status. Their main check is done in the background on your residency status via your work history, residence (physical addresses) history, and tax records. If someone has not lived in Canada, then they obviously have no work / tax history. That is how CIC flags certain citizenship applications for what is called a "Residency Questionnaire". Once a PR is flagged, CIC puts them through a rigorous investigation, possibly in front of a citizenship judge. Of course, if at any time CIC suspects a PR has willfully lied, the PR status can be revoked.

Hope that helps!!
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canvis2006 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canvis2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 10:32pm
ecs, it simply means that my USA visa was issued after they did a background/security clearance on me.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 3:32am
MajidS hits it spot on.

Of course people can lie, and some do lie, on all sorts of applications to governments, for all sorts of reasons. And some get caught. Some don't. For my buck, I'd suggest that it is not a good idea, worse, it is a bad idea. Not worth it.

The primary enforcement tool for addressing the residency requirement for PRs is simply the CBSA interview at the POE . . . while they cannot deny entry to someone who is a PR, even if they obviously do not meet the residency requirement, CBSA officers at the POE are the ones most likely to commence the process leading to a person's eventual revocation of PR and removal. While any such interview is largely based on personal representations at the POE, there are all sorts of ways for well-trained, attentive officers to identify problematic cases. Your passport is in their hands, by the way, while they are asking you questions . . . and if the questions are about absences from Canada, they better be consistent with stamps in the passport and consistent with their electronic databases (these days, if they swipe your ID, it is in the system).

It is obvious, however, that CIC is not interested in enforcing the residency requirement in an absolutist fashion . . . they are mostly interested in persons who have few (or less) ties in Canada, who really have not had an intention to reside in Canada. There are all sorts of exceptions allowed, for example, including H&C grounds among others. Moreover, if a PR can get back into Canada without a problem, no matter how long they were absent from Canada, all they need to do to fully re-establish meeting the residency requirement is spend 730 days in Canada . . . even if they were gone for 15 years, if they return to Canada and are not subjected to removal proceedings (for failure to meet the residency requirement), after 730 days in Canada they are bona fide PRs (one of the appeal cases involves someone who returned to Canada on a visitor visa, and after two years he was OK to stay even though he had, prior to his return, been outside of Canada for many, many years, and had actually surrendered his PR card to the Canadian Embassy).

When it comes to renewing the PR card, one has to account for all addresses at which they lived for the past five years, and itemize all foreign travel in the last five years. Sure, one can lie about this. But that is a fool's game, more often than not anyway.

BTW -- I have not had to show my PR card (or any other identification) once when returning to Canada, in the four or five trips I have made outside the country since I landed. (I realize I need to start keeping exact track of all such trips.)

Edited by dpenabill - 18 Feb 2010 at 3:35am
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gggomez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 3:17pm
one way they knew I was out of the country and how long I was gone was by the delcleration card. This is scanned and viewable to a few different government offices. Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donvalley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 5:49pm
I think they don't keep track or verify everything... this is my opinion not an official info.

This is from my post in another thread:
....decided to continue there and came on temporary visits of max two weeks on annual vacations and last visit was two days before his PR expiry. Although he don't accumulated 100 days in total residency, no problems, he was in, no questions asked. Sent his application for renewal, approved, received PR and traveled back. No credit card, no employer, no work history, no rental, no t4, no tax, no nothing, just a bank account, that is his only "tie with Canada". Another weird thing was his PR Card was not for five years, expiry date was almost seven years from his landing date.
His travel documents are stamped with most entry/exits, country he works doesn't allow longer than six month vacations, everything is clear like day light. But still mighty CIC renewed it.

Sent-May 22|E-cas "Rcvd": Nov 16|
In Process: Jan 29 2010
|Transf:Mar 08|
Test:30 Aug Oath: 16 Sep
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canvis2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 6:02pm
dpenabill,

you said you did not have to show your PR card upon entry to Canada on some of your trips, you better ensure CIC/CBSA have recorded your entries as a PR (I assume you hold a passport from a visa-exempt country).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 2:15am
I don't know how they would have. I have been waved through the PIL every time but one -- all land crossings from the U.S. so far -- and the one time was for customs, filled out the declaration form but that was it, no showing of any kind of ID with that.

Yes I hold a passport from a visa-exempt country.

I am also driving a car registered to me (yes, here in Canada). But I don't anticipate that every trip will be in my car.

I am very certain this is not an issue relative to retaining PR status, that is, for purposes of meeting the PR residency obligation.

Whether it could trigger RQ for citizenship, I am not so certain, but I have the strong impression that so long as I disclose all my trips, all my absences, so that nothing in their records or my travel documents suggest any trips or longer absences than what I disclose in the residency calculation, that should not trigger any concern, let alone doubts or skepticism.

I could be wrong, but as I have posted elsewhere, while discrepancies between their records, one's travel documents, and the residency calculation submitted with the app will draw their attention, particularly if there is any suggestion in the records of unreported absences, I have seen no hint that reporting more absences than their records show, or that appear in one's travel documents, will trigger more scrutiny. And while I realize that what CIC does, does not always make sense, to do otherwise really would not make sense on a scale even CIC probably does not approach.

Of course if there are indications of exits and unaccounted for periods of time with no proof of re-entry, that might "raise" an issue. However, I have plenty of on-going proof of my presence here. Since I live full-time in a house I share with my wife, some utilities in my name alone, with minimal absences, and I run a professional business (and attendant that have many signed contracts showing my business address here), attend church almost weekly, have lots of transactional evidence of day-to-life (ATM transactions for example), see my local dentist several times a year, and so on and so on, I am absolutely not worried about showing my presence here.

I would, however, when the time comes, like to see my citizenship app sail through the process (much as my PR app did), and not get sidetracked with RQ or such. But if that were to happen, it would just be a matter of waiting, since as I said, I have and am keeping plenty of records of my activities here (many of them necessary for my taxes anyway) and if need be I could garner many sworn declarations by people who know me.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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pzb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pzb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:07am
Originally posted by canvis2006 canvis2006 wrote:

you said you did not have to show your PR card upon entry to Canada on some of your trips, you better ensure CIC/CBSA have recorded your entries as a PR (I assume you hold a passport from a visa-exempt country).


CBSA does not record entries as a PR, per se.  They simply record entries into Canada, either by vehicle or by name (depending on method of entry).  I have used a variety of methods entry - passport, PR card, NEXUS card, iris scan, even a birth certificate and drivers license a time or two.  My CBSA travel history report showed all the entries and did not show any difference between entries made pre-landing and post-landing. 

Keep in mind that, if you are a PR or Canadian citizen, once you are in Canada, you are set.  After you clear customs, is does not matter if the CBSA officer was thinking of you as a visitor; your status is not changed on each trip.  I have personally confirmed this, as the NEXUS system was rather confused and flagging me as a US resident visiting Canada (vs. US Citizen resident in Canada) for a while, and the BSO confirmed that it did not matter.

Thanks,
Peter


Edited by pzb - 04 Apr 2010 at 9:13am
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