Additional Family Information |
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leon5544
New Member Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Posted: 28 Mar 2011 at 10:20am |
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Hi all! We're working on the Additional Family Information (Imm 5406) application for PR, and can't understand who we NEED to include in the forms. Do we need to include mother, father, sisters and brothers of the principle applicant if they do not plan to ever immigrate to Canada? It says all over "you need to include all members of your family, even if they don't plan to accompany you to Canada"; however, the immigration guide also says, and i quote: "Any other relative (your mother, father, sister or brother, for instance) is not considered a family member for the purpose of this application."I'm super confused!! Do we even need to include me, the spouse, on the additional family information sheet, or not?
Thanks in advance for any clarification!
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RobsLuv
Senior Member Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 745 |
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"Any other relative (your mother, father, sister or brother, for instance) is not considered a family member for the purpose of this application." The principle applicant's parents and siblings are not eligible to be sponsored on this application because they are not family members of the sponsoring partner in this application. A person can sponsor their own family members - spouse, spouse's dependent children, parents and siblings, etc., - but not their spouse's family members (other than dependent children). So, while for purposes of this application (where the sponsor is applying on behalf of a spouse and maybe their dependent children), parents and siblings would not be eligible to be included - but they may be eligible to be sponsored at a later date by the new permanent resident.
So, the Additional Family Information form is for future reference. After becoming a permanent resident, the former "principle applicant" could be eligible to apply to sponsor his/her own parents and/or siblings (there are conditions to this, it's not just a given). Anyway, that is why those family members need to be disclosed on the Additional Family Info form as part of the applicant's original application. So, the form itself is quite clear - even if the instructions are confusing. The applicant is to include the information for their spouse or common-law partner (even if that is the Canadian sponsor, because it is a generic form and not all family class applicants will be being sponsored by a Canadian partner); any children (whether biological, adopted or step - even if they are already Canadian); and all siblings (half and step-siblings included). Again - this does not mean that all of those people will one day be eligible to be sponsored by the new permanent resident. But CIC does require that they be disclosed as part of this application. Edited by RobsLuv - 28 Mar 2011 at 10:51am |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Largely ditto RobsLuv with some clarification:
Distinguish "additional family information" (IMM 5406) from "additional family members" (IMM 0008 Generic). The former (IMM 5406) is expansive and includes anyone to be listed in the latter, but also includes persons who are not eligible to "accompany" the applicant. The latter (additional family members to be listed in IMM 008) is anyone who may possibly be an accompanying family member even if they are non-accompanying. The former (IMM 5406) is relevant information. The latter (family members to be identified in the PR application itself) is explicitly the identification of individuals who must be examined in addition to the primary applicant. IMM 5406 asks for all immediate family, even step-relations, that is, all persons in any of the specified relationships through affinity as well as consanguinity, as in all such relationships through blood or marriage. While a collateral issue is the future possibility of sponsoring such family members, as RobsLuv says, I am pretty sure its primary purpose if for identification purposes (part of firmly identifying "who" a person is can be and often is determined by who their parents were for example, since names and dates of birth and other identifying information can be coincidentally the same for different individuals, especially when there are variations in spelling or there are mistakes in other data), and its secondary purpose is to gather information which illuminates the applicant's circumstances toward evaluating a range of issues including whether or not, or to what degree, there is consanguinity (relation by blood) relative to legal requirements for a valid marriage, just for example, but also whether and to what extent those related to the applicant (including affinity/relationships by marriage) have ties to Canada. This information can be relevant in many, many ways, including toward corroborating information in the rest of the application (see questions about meeting family for example). It is also relevant, of course, to whether or not an individual should have been included in the application as an additional family "member" who is required to be examined. Note: unfortunately, the definitions regarding family relationship vary extensively, even as to legal definitions in the same jurisdiction ("dependent" for example can have various meanings relative to tax law, government entitlements, domestic relations law, and immigration law; definitions of "step" relations are even more vague). If you read the item in the respective forms for immigration, however, it is quite clear what they are asking for. Edited by dpenabill - 28 Mar 2011 at 12:11pm |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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leon5544
New Member Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thanks for the information, both RobsLuv and dpenabill. I'm still unclear about a couple of things, however, that I'm hoping you can clarify.
In the "Additional Family Information"(IMM 5406) form, it says that the princple applicant (in this case, my husband) needs to get each member of his family to fill out his/her own copy of this form. But how? In Section A of the form, it asks for the name of the applicant, the applicant's spouse or common-law partner (me), and the mother and father. We have no children, and he has siblings, so we'd need to fill out the siblings part but not the children part. No problems there. My confusion is, let's say we make a copy of that same sheet for each member of his (my husband's family). Do they just copy out the exact information that my husband filled out, but on their own sheet? And sign their own names instead of his? It seems like a waste of time to do all this, even just for identification purposes. But am I right in assuming that they just copy verbatim what he's written in his own copy of the IMM 5406 form, but just sign their own names?
Thanks so much (in advance) for any further clarification you can give me,
L.
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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I get the impression but am not certain that he has no dependent children, so there will be no "additional family members" listed in IMM 0008. If this is correct, no one else needs to complete IMM 5406. Only those who are listed in IMM 0008 as additional family members (his dependents), and even then, only those who are 18 or older need to complete their own copy of IMM 5406. They also need to complete their own copy of the Background/Declaration form. Thus, for those who need to complete the form (again, I get the impression this does not really apply to you), no, they do not make a copy of the primary applicant's form, they complete their own version of the form itself. That is, they fill out their own form, with their own name, their parents' names, and so on (if your husband has a dependent child 18 or older, your husband will of course be listed in the child's form, but as the child's father). BTW, actually it does not say this in form 5406 itself. In the document checklist under the item for "Additional Family Information" it states:
The same is true (as it states in the checklist) for the Background/Declaration, as in each family "member" (that is, all those listed as a family member in IMM 0008) 18 or older must likewise complete their own copy of the background form ... again, that means fill in the information for the dependent completing the form, not a copy of the primary applicant's completed version. Edited by dpenabill - 28 Mar 2011 at 10:31pm |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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leon5544
New Member Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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awesome - things are MUCH clearer. thank-you so much! so, i totally understand now everything about form IMM 0008. he doesn't need to complete any part of that, since no, he has no dependent children.last question (i think!). re. form IMM 5406, only HE has to fill out this form, right? section A asks who the applicant is. HE is the (principle) applicant. his spouse or common law partner is ME. parents are HIS biological parents (my husband's mother and father). correct so far? section B asks for children - he has no dependent (or other) children, so he doesn't have to fill this in. section C asks for brothers and sisters. he has 2 siblings. they are citizens of south america, married and have families here of their own, so they are definitely non-accompanying members (they will not accompany us to canada now or even in the forseeable future). does my husband still need to identify them on section C of form 5406?
and do they (his siblings) need to fill out their own form? my guess is 'no' - but i need to make sure.
one extra (silly) question - my husband's handwriting is atrocious. can i fill in the final (ink) version of the forms (he's done his all in pencil) as long as he signs them? or is this not a good idea?
many thanks for all your help! :)
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leon5544
New Member Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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another quick question arises re. sponsor form IMM 1344 A (section C: persons being sponsored and his or her family members). in question 1, i am sponsoring my husband, so i filled in the information about him. in question 2, i filled in N/A because *i* am the spouse of the principle applicant, but i am also the sponsor. correct?
in question 3, i fill out N/A because he has no children, dependent or otherwise.
in question 4, do i fill out information about his 2 parents and his 2 siblings? they are all in fact non-accompanying family members. all are adults.
thanks so muuuch!
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RobsLuv
Senior Member Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 745 |
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Edited by RobsLuv - 29 Mar 2011 at 4:36pm |
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3/2007-applied
1/2008-Refused 12/2008-ADR failed 1/2010-Appeal allowed 4/2010-In Process(Again) 5/2010-request FBI/meds 8/2010-FBI recd 11/30/10-APPROVED! 1/31/11-LANDED! |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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edit to note that RobsLuv posted while I was drafting mine. I suspect she has given excellent information but I have not yet read it.
Yes, the applicant must identify all persons to whom he is related as specified in IMM 5406. Read my first post here again. This is "information" about the applicant, who the applicant really is, who the applicant is related to, including any and all children or siblings in a step-relation -- for example, I listed my wife's (my sponosor's)children as my step-children. Frankly, this is pretty obvious. If you are not understanding the forms at this level you may want to consider obtaining help from someone close to you who has more experience completing complex bureaucratic forms, or from a professional. Some people simply do not understand bureaucratic forms, like some people have difficulty grasping algebra, and, I do not intend to be condescending, but your questions about IMM 5406 suggest you are struggling with these forms. Many, many people have the same question you originally posed, because yes there is some confusion inherent in the way the forms refer to "additional family members" (in IMM 0008) as opposed to "additional family information" (in IMM 5406). But after reading RobsLuv and my posts, your last question suggests a level of confusion with how to interpret the questions in the forms that, again frankly, suggests there are likely other areas in which the two of you are likely to struggle with properly answering. For question 3 in IMM 5406, for example, if there are no children at all (including for you) put "N/A" in all the boxes (actually we just put a diagonal line across whole sections like this with a large "N/A" ... but not in this particular section, for us, since both my wife and I do have children). In some places "N/A" will work, but "none" may be the better, more appropriate response; remember, try to answer the questions directly. "N/A" means "not applicable." Thus, you were right, for IMM 1344A in item C.2. "N/A" is correct, he does have a spouse but his spouse (you) is the sponsor and is not an "accompanying" spouse. Then in C.3. and C.4. also put "N/A" in all the boxes. But here again, your question reveals that you are still a bit confused about who are "family members."
Remember, for purposes of the PR application, "family members" are only those who are in a relationship with the applicant that would require them to be examined; that is, those to be listed on page 2 of IMM 0008. Moreover, the only difference between C.3. and C.4., is that C.3. is for "accompanying" family members, and C.4. is for "non-accompanying" family members. His parents are not "family members," nor are his siblings. They are identified in IMM 5406 in the scope of "additional family information," but they are not family "members" within the scope of your partner's PR application. So, again, for C.4. in IMM 1344A, put "N/A" in all the boxes. Again, at the least, I strongly suggest going over the completed forms with someone you trust, or with a professional (you do not need to have someone represent you, rather, you can usually obtain a consultation with an immigration lawyer for around three hundred dollars, though it may be a little more if you are going to have the lawyer read over the entire application; I do not know about consultants and, frankly, at this stage I tend to discourage people from using immigration consultants). I also suggest typing in the forms themselves as much as possible, and then completing remaining items with a pen. You could either have him handwrite his responses and send themt you to type in and print and then send back to him to sign, then he send them back to you to submit, or you could be typing them out while you are either in a chat/IM communication with him (he should have a hardcopy of the form in front of him to refer to) or on the telephone. Again, you print the partially completed form, complete the rest with pen, send that to him to sign and return to you. KEEP COPIES. Edited by dpenabill - 29 Mar 2011 at 4:37pm |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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leon5544
New Member Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thanks for your help, RobsLuv - perfectly clear answers and exactly the clarification I was hoping to find in this forum. :)
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