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Canada citizenship with US GC

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ashawindsor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashawindsor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Canada citizenship with US GC
    Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 9:55pm

I needed some advice on my situation. I have been living in Canada for the past 4 years and satisfied my residency requirements and applied for Canadian citizenship. While the application was in process (10 months into it), my US GC got approved. I didn't plan it that way since the US backlog is unpredictable and it just happenned. Anyway I have moved to the US now however I would like to complete my canadian citizenship. The question I have is this allowed? Will there be any issues? The canadian citizenship requires you to live in Canada while the process is going on but I had to relocate to the US when my residency was approved. When I called the CIC they informed me that this is required since you have to come back to write the test and I can do that very quickly from the US to which they had nothing to add. Can someone advise me if this is fine since I am not getting a clear answer here?

Thanks in advance
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HUMDESI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMDESI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 11:06pm
As far as I know there is no such requirement. As long as you have fulfilled the residency requirement, and you have applied, I dont think there should be any problem. Bcoz once you file your application, the days have your application date are not considered for residency. But I think you have to keep your permanent address in Canada still. Bcoz they might question you on that. And about the CIC call centre, I have had experiences in the past, they never give you their personal experience or suggestion, but only tell you the information that is given on their computer screens, whether it answers your question on your situation or not.
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ashawindsor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashawindsor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 11:08pm
Thanks for the response however this is getting quite convoluted. I am getting different answers from different forums and the reason I posted here was because I wanted to get the perspective of a Canadian lawyer. I posted on a prominent US lawyer site and they came back saying this is strictly not allowed and you have to either give up canadian or US PR card.
 
Has anyone tried this or if Mr Singer himself can share his thoughts?
 
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMDESI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 11:32pm
Question is how long ago did u apply? If it is only a matter of couple of months, you might as well stay in canada for that and then go back to US after u get ur citizenship. Then there will be no body to question you on keeping double PRs. One more thing, this might sound absurd to you, if you have decided to live in US, why bother getting CC, since that might jeopardize ur US GC...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashawindsor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 11:36pm
So I have already moved because US requires you to move ASAP. My citizenship is still under process and since there was no way to predict how much longer it will take, I didn't want to lose my US GC and hence I moved to the US
 
As far as your second question the main reason is we want to adopt a child from India. If you are a CC it is easier to do that and then you can always bring that child to the US because the child is a CC. Now the issue is if you give up on CC and try to adopt a child as a US GC, US laws state that you have to live with the child for 2 yrs before bringing them to the US. Well that it self is not an issue but US doesn't allow you to be outside the country for more than 6 months at a time. So in effect you cannot adopt a child unless it was born in North america if you are a US GC. So that would mean waiting 5 yrs to become a US Citizen, hence the issue


Edited by ashawindsor - 25 Jan 2011 at 11:37pm
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 1:28am

While this site is sponsored by a law firm, I have never seen Mr. Singer or anyone else from the law firm post in these forums or in its previous rendition.

Occasionally some who post here claim to be certified "consultants" but I have never found their imput to be credible or reliable. They are, it seems to me, trolling for clientele.

While I personally know very little about how your Canadian status might affect your U.S. Green Card, it is my impression that unlike requirements for Canadian Permanent Residents, there is an intent requirement for U.S. green card holders, and thus if the GC holder goes abroad with the intent to live outside the U.S. permanently they are no longer eligible to retain their green card status. That, I believe, is probably what underlies the comment by the U.S. lawyers regarding being both a Canadian PR and a U.S. green card holder ... technically no go at the same time.

Except you are already a Canadian PR holder and the Canadian requirements are based on a residency requirement you have met and which (from what you say) suggests that your Canadian PR status is good for nearly another three years (basically a Canadian PR who has been continuously or near to continuously in Canada for at least two years can, at any time, leave Canada and remain away from Canada for up to three years before being in breach of the residency requirement, and intent has nothing to do with it -- meaning you can leave Canada with the intent to live permanently in the U.S. without that affecting your Canadian PR status ... until enough time has passed that you are approaching having less than 730 days in Canada during the previous five year time frame).

So there is no reason why you could not do what you did, that is go to the U.S. and be a green card holder, with the intent to live in the U.S., without jeopardizing your Canadian PR status for the time being.

Where does that leave you relative to your application for Canadian citizenship?

Strictly speaking, I believe, in terms of the "residency requirement," your eligibility for Canadian citizenship is based entirely on your status plus your residency in Canada during the four year time frame immediately preceding the day you submitted the application. Based on that you should be OK. Will taking the oath of citizenship be something inconsistent with the intent requirement for the U.S. green card? I do not know.

That said, however, foremost you need to appear at the times CIC schedules you for the citizenship test and interview; this can often be on quite short notice. And you need to appear at the time scheduled for the oath. Again, this is oft times on short notice.

Moreover, time you spend outside Canada after submitting the citizenship application can be examined by the citizenship officer and/or the citizenship judge. You will, of course, have to present your passport at the time of the test/interview and it will appear that you have landed in the U.S. as a green card holder, and, well, I do not know the odds at all, but there is a significantly increased chance that will evoke RQ, delaying the processing of your citizenship application, requiring you to provide extensive documentation relative to residency, and in effect push you to more affirmatively prove that you met the residency requirement. Again, strictly speaking, this should still be focused on your residency during the four year time frame leading up to the day preceding the submission of your citizenship application, but where you have gone since is, well, something that may affect how a citizenship judge assesses the evidence for the relevant four year time frame.

Short answer, then, is "yes, your move to the States can be an issue," but it should not preclude your being granted Canadian citizenship eventually and so long as you appear when scheduled, and so long as you satisfactorily prove you established a permanent residence in Canada and was actually, physically present in Canada for at least 1095 days during the four years immediately preceding the date you applied.

Edited by dpenabill - 26 Jan 2011 at 1:32am
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashawindsor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 8:35am
Thanks you for the detailed response, I am hoping for exactly the same thing. My biggest worry is the point you just brought up which is they look at my passport and realize I have been given my US GC. I am hoping to cover that by sending a letter to CIC clearly explaining my status so that they don't come back and insinuate that I was hiding something. Now as you mentioned the word "intent" can be argued by lawyers till the cows come home..US can interpret it as you trying to leave which is not the case. I am paranoid that Canada can then ask US to cancel my US GC by informing them that I tried to complete my CC which in effect asserts Canadian PR which means intent to move to Canada even though that isn't the case. So I think I am dealing in a grey area and honestly the only reason we are pushing for this is due to our adoption consideration. It is crazy the way the laws are drawn for adoption for US GC holders because in effect you cannot adopt unless the child was born in US or Canada since by birth they would already be a citizen of those countries, otherwise you have to leave the US for two years which in effect cancels your GC because unlike Canada, US doesn't allow you to leave for more than 6 months at a time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 3:21pm
They will look at your passport. They will, most likely, recognize that you have become a permanent resident in the U.S. No need to "worry" about this; more like count on it.

And, thus, it is my impression that they will elevate the level of scrutiny applied to your application because of that. Whether or not that means RQ, I cannot guess, though as I said I think the prospect is relatively high. Or, they may simply ask a few more detailed questions, perhaps ask you to submit some additional documents, without invoking the formal RQ.

I believe you are supposed to advise CIC of an address change and, in particular, if you have moved abroad during processing. I am not sure, however, to what extent a failure to do so affects one's case so long as the applicant is getting mail delivered (in some way) timely enough to appear when scheduled.

I doubt your rationalizations/explanations for wanting to still forge ahead with obtaining citizenship would help much. They might hurt. They make it clear you have no intention of really being a resident of Canada, but instead want the status of citizen to facilitate the immigration of an adopted child. Probably not a good thing to bring up.

There are a few cases in which it appears that Citizenship Judges have been less generous toward applicants who have obviously moved out of Canada since submitting the citizenship application. I do not recall the particular cases off the top of my head. If you are at all fluent in conducting database searches, you might try examining some citizenship cases yourself.

You can search Canadian Federal Court decisions either at the Federal Court's site for decisions or at the CANII site.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 3:58am
You may fing the Mcilroy case somewhat relevant and interesting, except McIlroy fell short of the 1095 days of actual, physical presence and that, it seems, was enough to do him the dirty, so to key. But it kind of illustrates the not-so-generous approach CIC or a CJ might take relative to someone who has left Canada following their application for Canadian citizenship.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tarik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 10:02am
very interesting case dpenabill, thank you for sharing.
 
base on this case, do you think if he met the 1095 days and went for an oversees employment after applying for citizenship, but left his family residing in Canada and kept visiting them from now and then, he would win the case or may be he wouldn't get the RQ to start with?
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