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Calculation of 730 required

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Rafeeq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rafeeq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Calculation of 730 required
    Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 9:05am

 Hi

I landed to Canada in February 2008, stayed one month and traveled back to my home country. I left my family wife & children there to stay for five months up to July 2008.

In July 2009 we returned to Canada together, I spent one month and left back however my family stayed there up to today.

 I would point out the following:

1-      My family is to complete one year and ten months by the end of this year 2010.

2-      The altogether period I stayed in Canada is four intermittent months (I spent one month in each visit to Canada-four visits).

3-      The expiration date of my PR card is February 2013.

4-      My family will complete 1095 in mid of 2012 and apply for citizenship.

Here are my questions:                   

1-      What is the dead line for me to join my family to stay in Canada for 730 to maintain my PR? Is it February 2011 or June 2011 as I already stayed in Canada four intermittent months?

2-      If I don’t join my family and lose my PR can my family apply and obtain citizenship separately? despite I was the principal applicant for them?

3-      If I lose my PR, can my family sponsor me in the future to be PR again despite I was the principal applicant for them? If yes how long it takes to complete the procedures and have sponsorship visa issued? Bearing in mind that my family has owned a property and paying tax in Canada.

Looking forward to hear from you,

Thank you & regards,

Rafeeq

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GabGil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabGil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 11:29am
1) June 2011, since the 2 out of 5 years do not need to be continuous.

2) Yes your family can apply for citizenship. It does not matter what happens to your status.

3) Yes your spouse can sponsor you. How long it takes will depend on which office will deal with your application:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp

G.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 4:50pm
Ditto with additional notes:

If you fall short of the required 730 days by just a little, with your family living in Canada you have very good odds of being allowed to retain PR status based on H & C grounds.

If you periodically return to Canada and are returning with a valid PR card, I believe the odds of a residency examination are significantly less than simply an attempt to return after an absence of multiple years.

Worst thing to do is to be abroad when your PR card expires. If you can return to Canada prior to the expiration of the PR card and are allowed into Canada without a removal order being issued, even if you have not technically met the 730 day residency requirement your PR is still good and all you have to do is remain in Canada until you are in compliance, then at that point you should apply for a new PR card. Do not apply for a new PR card unless and until you are definitely in compliance with the residency obligation.

Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rafeeq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 12:08pm
I do thank you all for your efficient reply, and appreciate any other participation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 12:04am
@dpenabill: What happens if the spouse is studying outside the country and loses his/her PR with approximately 670 days only towards residency..?

Can he/she renew PR in below situation..?

Spouse visits Canadian spouse and child living in Canada frequently.

Spouse visited more number of days in the last two years.

At this point (670 days in 5 years); If citizen moves and lives with student spouse he/she will accumulate 730 days after living 6 months and after losing PR status or not meeting residency obligation..?

Can he/she renew PR status..? travel document..? If one loses or surrenders PR card, reapply for PR..?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 3:01am
Foremost, I should caution that I am no expert. Secondly, definitive advice relative to a particular situation/case is not really appropriate in a forum like this. Mostly someone like me can speak to general principles, offer some observations, point to what CIC says and what others have reported, with some extrapolation and inference applied. Thus, thirdly, "what happens" is not always well defined, not a necessary outcome, there are almost always a lot of other factors that affect the outcome in a particular case.

OK, that said, some observations:
I wonder if you are confusing "losing PR" with simply being in breach of the residency requirement. One does not automatically "lose" PR status because they have failed to meet the residency requirement.

If a person has formally "lost PR" (which must be adjudicated as such but can be through various procedures, including a form of voluntarily relinquishing PR status, which is something I am not much familiar with but am aware of), they are simply no longer a PR and must apply for PR status in order to become (again) a PR. I am not sure where "surrenders" a PR card falls in this scheme -- if that amounts to voluntarily and formally relinquishing PR, I believe then PR is indeed lost and it is, then, quite simply gone. That person is once again a foreign national subject to applying for status in Canada like any other foreign national.

If, however, the person simply has breached the residency requirement they are still a PR, but are at risk of either being denied a TD to travel to Canada, or being issued a removal order upon approaching a POE in Canada.

On the other hand, a person whose PR card has expired (or who does not otherwise have a valid PR card), while they are still a PR (as in they have not lost PR status merely because they do not have a currently valid PR card, even if they are in breach of the residency requirement) and who is outside Canada, is going to face some serious hurdles in order to obtain a Travel Document authorizing travel to Canada. They will have to prove they meet the residency requirement or are entitled to retain PR status based on H & C grounds. This gets very case specific, especially in the context of an application for a TD, with a lot, a real lot, of various factors coming into play. See the Operational Manuals (do not have url off top of my head) for further elaboration about the details that factor into such cases.

I believe I have seen at least one formal case ruling in favor of a PR who managed to show the requisite "in Canada" time by being with the PR's Canadian citizen spouse while abroad even though the PR had (before the time spent accompanying the spouse abroad) breached the residency requirement and then, subsequently spent enough time abroad accompanying the PR's spouse to meet the 730 threshold. I'd suggest this is a risky approach, but for some it may be the best they can do. But, again, if they have actually "lost" PR status this will be of no effect, except relative to a spousal sponsored PR application and showing that it is a genuine relationship.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 9:51am
Thank you dpenabill for answering about the hypothetical situation!!!

The primary intent is to make Canada home and get education but not to beat the system. H&C in some true circumstances is a good part on CIC to allow PR meet residency obligations as sometimes things are out of control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canvis2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 3:06pm
Through friends experiences and etc, I've noticed that CBSA/CIC does consider H&C in cases where it is warranted, and having Canadian spouse/child is more beneficial as well.

If worst comes to worse, Canadian spouse can always sponsor the spouse, but I doubt if it will ever go that far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2010 at 4:13pm
It appears, from reports and from cases, that CIC is fairly liberal, generous even, in allowing PRs to retain their PR status. Family in Canada, especially spouse, especially dependent children, are strong H & C factors. The closer one comes to meeting the 730 days (and 670 is relatively close) is a good, perhaps even strong factor. And the reason one is away from Canada so much, compared to the nature and extent of ties to Canada, is another important factor (though it is unclear how this is actually applied in particular cases, and thus it is difficult to extrapolate how it will affect a particular case). There are others. Again, anyone in this situation should review the respective operational manual which outlines the process and elements.

That said, if one loses before CIC, the cases suggest that the Federal Courts are not at all liberal, let alone generous, and they seem to take the approach that the threshold itself, 730 days in five years, is so generous that little leeway beyond that is warranted. So, if one gets involved in a situation in which they are adjudicating/appealing a removal order, or are pursuing a TD supported by H & C considerations (that is, without meeting the technical 730 threshold obligation), they should be sure to make their best H&C case immediately, since if CIC is not persuaded it appears to be much tougher at the Federal Court level. (A perusal of federal court cases reinforces the perception that PR status is not taken away except in fairly egregious circumstances . . . and one sees cases in which the individual was away from Canada for many years with little or no contact with Canada.)

All this said, it is worth remembering: if PR status has been formally lost, that is it, no chance to argue H&C grounds to retain PR status notwithstanding a breach of the residency obligation, since such a person does not have any PR status to retain. They are then simply a Foreign National.


Edited by dpenabill - 20 Nov 2010 at 6:45am
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Rafeeq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rafeeq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 10:09am
Could you please provide me with the link of the respective operational manual? just for my information.
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