PR App Question-Do I need to list adult daughter?

I am filling out my application for permanent residence.  I am a US citizen married to a Canadian citizen and he is sponsoring me.  He meets all sponsorship requirements and I meet my requirements.  I have a daughter (from a previous relationship) and she is a US citizen.  She is 21 years old, has not resided with me since she was 18 years old and has a child of her own.  She is not immigrating to Canada.  She is living in the US and plans to stay there.

I DO know for sure - because this issue has impacted my life for the past four years.  What gulata is trying to say above is true - but not applicable in your case.  The right to sponsor in the future is not the issue here because chances are that your daughter would not be eligible on a future application anyway - unless she is a full-time student and remains financially dependent on you - because a child who does not accompany a parent when they immigrate has to be sponsored separately on a new application, and at that time they have to still be defined as a "dependent".  That means that, after you get PR status, your daughter would still have to be under 21 years of age - or she would have to have been attending school full time since before turning 22, and be financially dependent on you - in order to be eligible to be sponsored.     

Unfortunately, though, that doesn't mean she's exempt from undergoing examination now.  Unless she is married or living in a common-law relationship, at age 21 she is still defined by Immigration Canada as your dependent - and you are required to include her as such on your application.  That means that, even though she is not immigrating, she has to submit an FBI clearance and she (and her child) have to undergo medical examination.  In addition, your sponsor will have to meet minimum income requirements because of the child. 

My advice: if she's anywhere near turning 22, wait for that before you submit your PR application.  That way she is no longer your dependent, no medical or FBI required, and no minimum income requirements.  You would simply include her as a family member on IMM5406 - Additional Family Info - and be done with it.  Having to include her now, with the child and so close to 22 years old, is a big hassle that will not be worth it unless she actually wants to come to Canada with you.

I had these exact questions 4 years ago when we got married and were getting ready to submit the PR applications.  I have two sons - aged 19 and 21 when we got married - who did not have any intention at all of accompanying me to Canada . . . but I had to include them.  We did everything by the book - spent our own money to have them medically examined, and we paid for their FBI clearances.  Unfortunately, the younger of the two had been arrested, and even though he was not coming to Canada and never wanted to be on the application in the first place, they used his arrest to refuse me permanent status.  After a two year wait, we won our appeal and now my application is back in process - and they're giving me grief over my oldest son, who is now 24.  He is "locked in" at age 21 on my ap.  He is now is living with his girlfriend and still doesn't want to come to Canada - but they want him to spend in excess of $500 for a new medical, and to get another FBI.  He said no - told them he was living with his girlfriend . . . which should make him ineligible as a dependent . . . but they're asking for a marriage certificate!  Believe me, unless you're going to have to wait almost a year to submit an ap because of her age, save yourself the grief.  We've been four years delayed over two boys who have not lived with me since 2003 and who never had any intention at all of coming to Canada - but Immigration Canada has been like a dog with a bone.  It's been a nightmare I'd never wish on anybody - even my worst enemy.  Save yourself the hassle if you can.    

Edited by RobsLuv - 08 Nov 2010 at 11:56pm

Please only respond if you KNOW FOR SURE!

The temptation is to wonder if you are asking a prophet of God to speak. Even a well-informed, highly experienced immigration lawyer can only offer an opinion, no guarantees, no "for sure" in the equation. Any question that involves a particular individual's factual circumstances involves some degree of interpretation and inference depending on the specifics, and the specifics always vary.

Beyond that, RobsLuv has as much experience as anyone here addressing the issue of who is a "dependant" relative to who must be identified as a "family member" in the application for permanent residence in Canada (to be distinguished from those one is required to disclose in the "additional family information" form"). It is worth your while to read her post carefully. It illuminates some of the more difficult facets confronting sponsored applicants who have families from prior relationships.

Foremost, however, be aware that CIC has its own definition of who is a dependant (who is a dependent child) which is not the same as other Canadian government agency definitions of "dependant" and definitely not the same as the various U.S. States define a "dependent." The CIC definition is the one that matters. If, pursuant to the CIC definition, one has dependent children, they must be identified in the application for Permanent Residence and must be "examined" even if they are "non-accompanying" (meaning they have no intent to immigrate to Canada with the primary applicant). There are consequences for failing to disclose them or for their failure to be "examined," as gulata alludes to in an earlier post . . . but one really does not have the choice of electing to disclose them or not be able to sponsor them at a later time. One is still obligated to disclose them. And to deal with the alternatives (as in be examined, including the hassles attendant that, or go through the process of their not being examined, which tends to throw the processing of one's application off course).

In the meantime I am not sure where gulata gets the idea that the information one is asked to provide in the "additional family information" form (IMM 5406) will only "be used for future application and has no influence in present application" . . . not sure "influence" is the relevant concept here. It is all information CIC can and will use to assess the elements of a PR application, the most critical element being quite simply the positive identification of the applicant (and knowing the parents names, DOB, and other vital statistics information, as well as that of other family members, looms large in just that part of their assessment), though it is also relevant information in other respects as well (such as consanguinity, which is a factor in whether or not two individuals may be legally married), and of course it is all "relevant" by definition (see operational manuals, which prescribe that all information asked for by CIC is deemed "relevant") and is likely compared, for consistency, with other information in the application materials as well as any other CIC or CBSA information about the applicant.

In any event, bottom line, read the guide: it specifically sets forth who are "dependent children" (under 22 and not married or in a common-law relationship, and so on, page 4 of the guide). Dependent children must be identified in the application for PR. They are supposed to be examined. Read RobsLuv's post again about some vagaries that arise. It may be seriously inconvenient but it really is not that confusing.
    

Thanks for the feedback everyone...very helpful.

I failed to mention that my daughter is living with her boyfriend and has been for a year now.  I don't know how CIC defines common-law as this is not recognized in Illinois (where they live).  So, if this is defined as a common-law relationship do I still need to include her on my application?

 

This process has me burnt-out!

Thanks again for the input.  I phoned CIC this morning - TWICE.  I spoke with a woman who told me that since she was 21 and has a child of her own that she was not dependent and did not need to be included on the application.  I phoned back 20 minutes later just to see if I would get the same response from a different agent and he told me since she has a child of her own she was not dependent for that reason alone.  He also told me I didn't need to include her.  He also researched his documents and told me I did not need to declare her either.