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talion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote talion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Application for Permanent residence
    Posted: 16 Dec 2009 at 10:52pm
Am I reading this wrong, or do they seriously want all the personal information, ID card numbers and photos for every member of the immediate family even if they aren't traveling with the person sponsored?

Do I really need to get height/weight/eye colour/ ID number and photos of all of them? My wife has 4 siblings plus her mom, and it will be a huge pain in the ass.

OR, is this section only referring to the sponsored person and their children, which the application says must be included.The form just says "family members"

I feel like these applications were created by monkeys with crayons, and I'm not a dumb guy. Vague or imperfectly explained. It's frustrating.
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redeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2009 at 12:16am
Lol, monkeys with crayons or not, thats what they want. My problem is I have 4 brothers and 1 sister and I only know where one of them lives. I have only met 2 of my brothers once in my entire life.
Still what is, but I dont see where you are getting the photos needed for them from?
"Will this matter a year from now?"
Probably, this is gonna be a one hell of a long journey.
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talion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote talion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2009 at 1:13am
so if that's the case what happens if you can't get all the info for all the various brothers and sisters, estranged fathers, what have you?

I still can't believe that it's necessary to get all this crap from every single member of the immediate family, even if they're not traveling.
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redeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2009 at 2:08am
I have just written a letter explaining as to why I do not know the details of each family member.
"Will this matter a year from now?"
Probably, this is gonna be a one hell of a long journey.
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pmm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2009 at 3:50pm
Hi

Originally posted by redeagle redeagle wrote:

I have just written a letter explaining as to why I do not know the details of each family member.


"When all else fails read the instructions"

If you note the top of page 2 of the IMM 008 you only include the applicants (spouse/dependent children who are NOT Canadians or PRS)and included in the application. Your parents and siblings are included on the IMM 5406 and it doesn't ask for their height, weight or photos.

PMM
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redeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2009 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by pmm pmm wrote:

Hi

Originally posted by redeagle redeagle wrote:

I have just written a letter explaining as to why I do not know the details of each family member.


"When all else fails read the instructions"

If you note the top of page 2 of the IMM 008 you only include the applicants (spouse/dependent children who are NOT Canadians or PRS)and included in the application. Your parents and siblings are included on the IMM 5406 and it doesn't ask for their height, weight or photos.



I meant the reason I do not know their addresses, and it was the 5406 that I was refuring to :)
"Will this matter a year from now?"
Probably, this is gonna be a one hell of a long journey.
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talion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote talion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 1:43am
Originally posted by pmm pmm wrote:

Hi

Originally posted by redeagle redeagle wrote:

I have just written a letter explaining as to why I do not know the details of each family member.


"When all else fails read the instructions"

If you note the top of page 2 of the IMM 008 you only include the applicants (spouse/dependent children who are NOT Canadians or PRS)and included in the application. Your parents and siblings are included on the IMM 5406 and it doesn't ask for their height, weight or photos.



Actually, it's not that clear. Yes, it is clear when it says in IMM 008 that you MUST include your spouse or common law partner and all of the dependent children who are not already citizens of Canada. What is not clear is if you must ONLY include these select people, or whether the rest of the immediate family need be included as well.

I have read the instructions, and good reading skills will tell you that this paragraph is not saying to just send the people listed. It says that these people must be included in your list. It doesn't say that this necessarily constitutes your whole list.Kind of like Venn diagrams. One does not preclude the other. I just want the clarity of knowing whether the others need to be included as well. When the last thing the instruction says is to fill in the details about ALL of your family members then it's quite easy to interpret it as just that. Maybe the answer is obvious to those who have gone through the process, but it is not obvious to the first time reader who knows how to read, so sorry if it's a dumb question. I'd rather ask the dumb question than make the dumb mistake that will cost me weeks or months extra away from my wife. Thanks for your help everyone.

Edited by talion - 18 Dec 2009 at 1:46am
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IslandGirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IslandGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 4:24am
Actually it is quite clear - it says exactly:
You must provide the following details about each of your family members, whether they will be accompanying you to Canada or not. You must include your spouse or common-law partner, if applicable, and all of your dependent children, and those of your spouse or
common-law partner, who are not already permanent residents or citizens of Canada.
If you have more than three family members, photocopy this page before you start completing it or print it from our Web site at www.cic.gc.ca.  Make sure you have enough copies to fill in details about all your family members.


Nowhere does it say you must include your parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc
Yes, they are family - but they are extended family, not immediate
It does however address - spouse, common-law partner and all your dependent children, and any your spouse or common-law partner may have.

That would also mean if you have a 40 year old child, they are not dependent so they would not be listed either (on this form).


Originally posted by talion talion wrote:

Originally posted by pmm pmm wrote:

Hi

Originally posted by redeagle redeagle wrote:

I have just written a letter explaining as to why I do not know the details of each family member.


"When all else fails read the instructions"

If you note the top of page 2 of the IMM 008 you only include the applicants (spouse/dependent children who are NOT Canadians or PRS)and included in the application. Your parents and siblings are included on the IMM 5406 and it doesn't ask for their height, weight or photos.



Actually, it's not that clear. Yes, it is clear when it says in IMM 008 that you MUST include your spouse or common law partner and all of the dependent children who are not already citizens of Canada. What is not clear is if you must ONLY include these select people, or whether the rest of the immediate family need be included as well.

I have read the instructions, and good reading skills will tell you that this paragraph is not saying to just send the people listed. It says that these people must be included in your list. It doesn't say that this necessarily constitutes your whole list.Kind of like Venn diagrams. One does not preclude the other. I just want the clarity of knowing whether the others need to be included as well. When the last thing the instruction says is to fill in the details about ALL of your family members then it's quite easy to interpret it as just that. Maybe the answer is obvious to those who have gone through the process, but it is not obvious to the first time reader who knows how to read, so sorry if it's a dumb question. I'd rather ask the dumb question than make the dumb mistake that will cost me weeks or months extra away from my wife. Thanks for your help everyone.
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whoopi83 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whoopi83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 5:52am

@ talion - I too struggled with providing any info for siblings etc (I have many plus half and step).  Using the correct form IMM5406, you only need list what you know.  I listed quite a few people here - some I could not remember exact date of birth and all except two, I entered "unknown" as the address as I simply wouldn't know where to begin finding out after a decade exactly where they all are.  And also, never worry about posting "dumb" questions, many of us have either done so or waited for someone else to do so before completing our application! Wink

Also, our application was fine.  All approved via London in a little under 3 months.  Landing in CA on Tuesday.
 
Good luck!
 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peachy871 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 10:17am
Hi Talion! Your question is not dumb at all and I think all of us on here have had our share of trying to make sense of what is written in the instructions and trying to get it all right the first time so we don't have delays.

With regard to IMM0008, the clarity for me about whether to include family members other than your spouse or partner plus dependent kids, came in the sentence from the Guide (IMM 3998) that I bolded below:

Your family members are your spouse or common-law partner, if applicable, and your dependent children (start with the oldest). You must include all of your family members (who are not already permanent residents of Canada or Canadian citizens), whether they intend to immigrate with you or not. Any other relative (your mother, father, sister or brother, for instance) is not considered a family member for the purpose of this application. If you have more than three family members, attach a separate sheet of paper with the same information provided in the same order.

As for IMM5406, I made the error of misinterpreting THAT one to have similar rules to IMM0008. This one didn't really explain the difference. IMM5406 IS looking for all your siblings, etc. My partner therefore, didn't fill that one in properly (thanks to me) but we did submit all his family's info anyway as an official family registry is required to be submitted from his country. Just waiting on word as to what immigration wants us to do about it or if what we sent was sufficient. Fingers and toes crossed that it doesn't cause a huge delay!

Edit: That paragraph is also from Guide IMM3999.

Edited by peachy871 - 18 Dec 2009 at 10:27am
Peachy
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