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tunisianbride View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tunisianbride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 6:56am
I'm so sorry Oms to hear that your wife got a refusal letter.  It's really heartbreaking, I know.  Which visa office did you go thru?  You can call the Law Society of Upper Canada at 1-800-268-8326 and they will give you the name of an immigration lawyer in your area, and you can call them and get a 30 minute free legal consultation.  You can ask at that time, what the lawyer would charge, to represent you in the appeal.  Good luck and don't give up!
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!
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trainman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 3:29pm

oms i feel your pain.  however i am happy i will be seeing my wife very soon. i will deal figuring out a way to pay for it later.  and i call that number too to see if anyone can  help me too.  i need a good lawyer.  anyways is it true does anyone know if you have a good lawyer or something an appeal will happen faster?

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tunisianbride View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tunisianbride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by trainman trainman wrote:

oms i feel your pain.  however i am happy i will be seeing my wife very soon. i will deal figuring out a way to pay for it later.  and i call that number too to see if anyone can  help me too.  i need a good lawyer.  anyways is it true does anyone know if you have a good lawyer or something an appeal will happen faster?

 
I hear ya trainman (about figuring out how to pay for things later).  I suggest you join the "IAD appeals, ADRs..." thread now - the people in there are so helpful and we're all going thru the same pain.   Some have won without a lawyer - I may have to go it alone because I can't afford to keep flying down to Tunisia every 6 months 'and' pay for a lawyer. 
Oct.08/09-Appl.sent CPC-M
Nov.04/09-Approved
Dec.29/09-ECAS 'in process'
Jan.07/10-AOR-Paris
Apr.19/10-interview May 5th
Jun.15/10-Decision Made
Jun.25/10-'Refused'!
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trainman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 6:08pm
yeah i will join.  hey do you think it is a good think to get a lawyer or not?  i mean if you can prove your relationship is geniune, shouldnt that be it?
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Harmonia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harmonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 11:44am
Trainman - I would strongly suggest getting some form of qualified representation (immigration lawyer).  They have far more experience in fighting appeals than you do, and might have some tricks up their sleeve that you might not think about.  Make sure that when you choose an immigration lawyer that they have actual hands-on experience with cases similar to yours, and moreso - that they have been successful.
 
And yes - I agree with you - if you can prove the relationship is genuine, that should be good enough -- but sadly, the I/O didn't share that opinion.
 
Sometimes I wonder if they are secretly told to delay what they might consider 'non-conventional applications' - just to add enough stress to the situation to 'weed out' the non-genuine apps.  It's just a thought - and in no way indicitive of reality - but I've seen a few legit couples be denied, and that bugs me.
 
Again we ask the question:  how on Earth can someone "validate" a relationship with only a paper file, a 90 minute interview, and ZERO personal insight?  The entire process has more holes than swiss cheese. 
 
I can understand perhaps being able to identify 'high-risk' sponsors (i.e. people who have already sponsored one spouse into Canada, and are now trying for another) --- but how they make concrete decisions without concrete facts is beyond me.
 
It cant be an easy job though.  I am sure they realize that they are holding peoples' lives in their hands... lives that they can ruin at the flick of a pen.  I have not (yet) been at an interview - so I have no idea how the I/O's conduct the assessments.  They are just people - and while some people are compassionate, some are not.  I'm sure that they all get faced with challenges where there is a conflict between their own personal beliefs and CIC policy. 
 
Rather than identify that on-the-fly, they have the appeals process. 
 
Perhaps they would do better having a 'buddy system' for PR applications - where both parties need to agree on the outcome, and if they are deadlocked, a third party is brought in to swing the balance.  Nice idea - and relatively fair too - but can you imagine how long the process would take if they did that?
 
 


Edited by Harmonia - 02 Jul 2010 at 11:46am
Citizenship App Sent: December 2012
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pmm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 2:00pm
Hi

Originally posted by Harmonia Harmonia wrote:

Trainman - I would strongly suggest getting some form of qualified representation (immigration lawyer).  They have far more experience in fighting appeals than you do, and might have some tricks up their sleeve that you might not think about.  Make sure that when you choose an immigration lawyer that they have actual hands-on experience with cases similar to yours, and moreso - that they have been successful.


 

And yes - I agree with you - if you can prove the relationship is genuine, that should be good enough -- but sadly, the I/O didn't share that opinion.

 

Sometimes I wonder if they are secretly told to delay what they might consider 'non-conventional applications' - just to add enough stress to the situation to 'weed out' the non-genuine apps.  It's just a thought - and in no way indicitive of reality - but I've seen a few legit couples be denied, and that bugs me.

 

Again we ask the question:  how on Earth can someone "validate" a relationship with only a paper file, a 90 minute interview, and ZERO personal insight?  The entire process has more holes than swiss cheese. 

 

I can understand perhaps being able to identify 'high-risk' sponsors (i.e. people who have already sponsored one spouse into Canada, and are now trying for another) --- but how they make concrete decisions without concrete facts is beyond me.

 

It cant be an easy job though.  I am sure they realize that they are holding peoples' lives in their hands... lives that they can ruin at the flick of a pen.  I have not (yet) been at an interview - so I have no idea how the I/O's conduct the assessments.  They are just people - and while some people are compassionate, some are not.  I'm sure that they all get faced with challenges where there is a conflict between their own personal beliefs and CIC policy. 

 

Rather than identify that on-the-fly, they have the appeals process. 

 

Perhaps they would do better having a 'buddy system' for PR applications - where both parties need to agree on the outcome, and if they are deadlocked, a third party is brought in to swing the balance.  Nice idea - and relatively fair too - but can you imagine how long the process would take if they did that?

 

 


1. I doubt that there are any "secret instructions" there are just too many applications, so the IO has no real interest or hidden agenda. They just want them processed and off their desk, so they can get on with the next one.
2. I bet most IOs would prefer that all the applications were complete and genuine, it is a lot less work to approve than refuse, and document and write the refusal.
PMM
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 3:24pm
I largely agree with PMM.

However, there does appear to be an unwritten or unofficial tendency toward, if not a relatively defined threshold imposed upon, certain kinds of applications being processed in a few specific Visa Offices. And this is probably based very much on practical realities and probabilities, not cultural or ethnic bias (even though perhaps the impact has a disproportionate impact on certain cultural and ethnic groups, and of course it appears that too often some cultural and ethnic bias does encroach into the process). As a result, especially relative to applications to sponsor persons from particular third-world, economically disadvantaged countries, and involving applicants (from such countries) with whom the sponsor has not had a lot of physical contact, the applicant probably faces a more difficult burden of proof . . . again, probably based on empirical data . . . which of course is probably exacerbated by the simple reality that the absence of a lot of personal, physical contact itself attenuates the capacity of the sponsor and applicant to fully and intimately know each other (many are "fooled" or misled by someone they spend large portions of most days with, let alone by someone who they rarely have spent physical time with), making it more difficult to "prove" the genuineness of the relationship.

It is worth remembering, it is not a Visa Officer's job to abstractly discern whether or not a relationship is genuine. It is the Visa Officer's job to determine whether or not the applicant has PROVEN that that relationship is genuine as well as all the other elements of the application.

Thus, just because a relationship is indeed genuine does not mean it qualifies. It must be genuine, AND the applicant must PROVE it is genuine. This seems to be oft overlooked; it appears many tend to present what might be called a "prima facie" case thinking that is sufficient (and I had an acquaintance who obviously approached the sponsorship of his Russian wife this way, with predictable results). It isn't.

Edited by dpenabill - 02 Jul 2010 at 4:39pm
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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boundary47 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boundary47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 1:05am
I have no doubt that most IOs take their jobs quite seriously, and I am sure there are some difficult cases to decide.  I recall reading that the rejection rates vary considerably by office, and I assume this is due to a combination of a higher proportion of weak or even outright fraudulent applications, and more skeptical IOs.  Some would undoubtedly interpret regional differences as evidence of racial or cultural bias, and I've no doubt that it's a fair charge in some cases.  After all, the world is far from perfect, and if there's anything I've learned it's that almost anything you can imagine has happened at one time or another.  

I'm sure there are genuine couples who have been kept apart by rejections; fraudulent applications correctly sniffed out and rejected, and even cases in which sponsors have been saved from a lot of grief by IO's rejections of people trying to use a sponsor's affection to gain entry to Canada.  The entire gamut is undoubtedly represented among those rejected. However, that is no comfort to a genuine couple who haven't provided the level of proof required by their IO.   

The system is imperfect and undoubtedly mistakes are made. It's cold comfort to the victims of these mistakes that the system generally works quite well and processes the majority of applications fairly, albeit very slowly in some offices. My heart goes out to those rejected - I can imagine how that must feel, as I think most of us can because undoubtedly we worried about it while our application was in play.
B47
Jan 29 App. sent
Mar 1 Sponsor approved
Mar 9 Passport requested
Mar 24 RPR Fee paid
Apr 15 File under review
Apr 30 Decision made
May 11 Decision mailed
May 13 Visa received
May 20 Landed
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immigrationconsultan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote immigrationconsultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 3:04am
Hello
I want to first tell you that i am sorry about the outcome of your file
I am a immigration consultant and would like to talk to you about it and help you with you appeal
at a reasonable cost
Contact me anytime
Nancy
[email protected]
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eastcoastgirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eastcoastgirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2010 at 11:13am
@Immigrationconsultant....
It would be my guess that this is NOT a place to solicit business for yourself and prey on innocent people and take advantage of their misfortunes!!!!!  Get a life and go look for business elsewhere!!!!
(If I am wrong and this person is legit, I do apologize but something tells me this is a scam)!
06/22/09:Married in Santo Domingo
04/22/10:Application received in Mississauga.
06/01/10:Approved to sponsor
07/16/10:In process (can finally log on e-cas on 21st)
07/30/10:AOR rec'd in mail
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