730 days not mandatory?? |
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zormas
Junior Member Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 12:26pm |
Hello Friends,
Hoping to get some clarification on this one :) I realize in order to maintain your PR-Status you have to be physically present for 730 days within the 5 year span from the day you receive your PR-card.Please correct me here if I am wrong. Have 2 questions here : 1)Those 730 days don't have to be continuous..as in you can stay 1 year in Canada then live outside of Canada for 2 years and then come back and stay 1 more year to fulfill the PR requirement? will this be a problem?? 2)Some people get their PR card and then they leave Canada and work outside.All they do is visit Canada every 6 months or 12 months ...for like maybe a month and thats it.But still...they retain their PR status. Hows that possbile? I mean I am sure they are NOT spending 730 days in Canada but still able to renew their PR status? is it really that easy to fool the system?? or am i just missing something there? some new law |
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scylla
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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1) No - the 730 do not have to be continuous.
2) Certain jobs outside of Canada (e.g. working for the Canadian government, working for a Canadian company) allow you to count days spent outside of the country towards the 730 total. Also, your days outside of Canada count towards the 730 total if you are accompanying a spouse who is a citizen. See the following link for more details: http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/information/applications/guides/5529E2.asp |
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Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010 Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010 Processing started: 08/19/2010 Passport request: 10/01/2010 Landed: 10/05/2010 |
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zormas
Junior Member Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Thank you for your prompt response.:)
I don't think some of these guys are really working for a Canadian company or accompanying their spouse who is a Canadian citizen.I can say that cuz i know few of them :) ..hence my confusion. I know they just visit canada for a month every year or so...and thats pretty much it.But they are still able to renew their PR status ..without actually spending 730 days in Canada!..i believe there is some kind of loophole in the system which is being exploited ....sadly. |
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matthewc
Average Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Hamilton, ON Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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Possibly CIC simply isn't realising that they are spending insufficient time in Canada to retain their status. The law is very clear, but it's possible they are "getting away with it". They would also be having to lie on their PR card renewal form to accomplish this, which (if discovered) makes you inadmissible for misrepresentation.
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scylla
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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As Matthewc said, there are certainly people out there who aren't completing their 730 days, are lying on their PR renewal applications and are still being approved. However by doing so, they risk losing their PR status completely.
I supposed this also comes down to a question of personal values and morals. |
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Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010 Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010 Processing started: 08/19/2010 Passport request: 10/01/2010 Landed: 10/05/2010 |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Observations:
Unforunately, fraud is common. Fortunately, fraud is often exposed and the perpetrator subjected to the consequences, including, for this sort of fraud, removal proceedings based on inadmissibility due to misrepresentation. Unforunately, it seems, many do not get caught. Otherwise, however, I am always suspicious of passing judgment on others; in a five year period, a PR can be absent from Canada for 1095 days (technically 1094, but since February 29 does not count, that's another day once every four years a PR can be absent) without being in breach of the residency requirement. That's a lot of time abroad. In the meantime, though, just because the PR is not at home next door does not mean he or she is outside the country. I'm wary of neighborhood watch vigilantes. Moreover, while the residency requirement remains always applicable so long as a person remains a PR, it really only becomes an issue at certain times: one, is if questioned about meeting the residency requirement upon entry at a POE (I have not been questioned once in the four times I have left and returned to Canada as a PR); secondly, if there is some reason the PR's case has been brought to the attention of CBSA or CIC and they are pursuing an inadmissibility investigation; and the really important one, when someone applies to renew their PR card and must disclose all travel abroad. A PR who regularly comes and goes is, perhaps, less likely to be questioned at the POE because it is apparent the PR has continuing ties and presence in Canada; there is always the possibility, the risk, that one will be questioned about time abroad, but if the PR is returning regularly and they respond that they were gone for three or four months that is not likely to trigger a more in-depth inquiry into the total amount of time they have been absent from Canada. It might, but in most cases probably won't. The major point of testing residency is during the PR card renewal. There may be a bit of irony in how the laws and regulations work. A PR who has been regularly spending a great deal of time abroad, so much so that the PR has less than 730 days in Canada in the last five years, only has to obtain entry into Canada without an inquiry being started and then stay in Canada long enough to reach that 730 day threshold. There are cases involving PRs who got back into Canada on visitor's visas, stayed, and because their PR status had never been formally revoked, once they stayed over 730 days, even if they had been previously absent for ten years, they were in compliance with the 730 day requirement and entitled to retain their PR status (one does not have to have a valid PR card to be a PR). Sure, those are cases involving what one might call working the system, but . . . well, so long as they made no misrepresentations, they are legit. I suspect there are many individual factors which play into who gets questioned and when, versus who does not. I am not at all sure, but it is strongly my impression that challenges to a PR about meeting the residency requirement ordinarily only arise: -- Main one, most common one I think, is a PR abroad applying for a TD to return to Canada -- PR approaching POE after being absent from Canada for an extended period of time . . . I have no idea what the triggering threshold is, but it is for sure that anyone who has been absent for three years is going to be questioned closely (many such PRs are still legit because of the three different exceptions to physical presence in Canada) -- Attendant an inadmissibility examination, investigation, or hearing, for whatever reason one was initiated (usually a criminality matter but there are other triggers) -- PR approaching POE & displaying travel documents evidencing (via stamps or otherwise) absences approaching or exceeding three years (overlooked initially and added in an edit to post). Edited by dpenabill - 31 Mar 2010 at 5:25pm |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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zormas
Junior Member Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Thank You so much for all your replies guys.Much appreciate it.
I found my answer..so thanks a ton again ..you guys were extremely helpful!! Cheers Sam
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Donvalley
Junior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Location: DowntownToronto Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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@ Zormas
Yes, there is a hole, not loophole but a manhole. This is what happened: I was working abroad in good technical position with good remunerations. Resigned this handsome job of 14 years to come to Canada in order to meet the residency requirement. After coming here slowly started with Canadian 'experience' of all ups and downs. At its best here; this will never match what I left. Another person from a related company landed few months after me. Returned back same like me. I resigned and came back to live permanent in Canada later. But he decided to continue there and came on temporary visits of max two weeks on annual vacations and last visit was two days before his PR expiry. Although he don't accumulated 100 days in total residency, no problems, he was in, no questions asked. Sent his application for renewal, approved, received PR and traveled back. No credit card, no employer, no work history, no rental, no t4, no tax, no nothing, just a bank account, that is his only "tie with Canada". Another weird thing was his PR Card was not for five years, expiry date was almost seven years from his landing date. His travel documents are stamped with most entry/exits, country he works doesn't allow longer than six month vacations, everything is clear like day light. But still mighty CIC renewed it. I am happy that he made it, bcz he is not in the same mess as I am in, going back to school, reduced hours and lay-offs and all other bullsh*ts. But feel like a nut for following the law. Yes, Zormas, you are right....sadly or happily they can get away with it. Also there are others with similar PR/Citizenship stories. I don't know, with so many declarations on the forms, are they not making one query? |
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Sent-May 22|E-cas "Rcvd": Nov 16|
In Process: Jan 29 2010|Transf:Mar 08| Test:30 Aug Oath: 16 Sep |
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zormas
Junior Member Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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hi there,
i know what you mean and totally understand the frustration. .i know people like that too...i have nothing against them and infact happy for them but at the same time its not fair to other people..like you. believe it or not....ive heard that people are getting their citzenship without even staying in Canada for even 6 months!!! question is....HOW are they getting away with it! |
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pzb
Junior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Simple: lying on their application forms. It is illegal and CIC will hopefully catch on, but some percentage of people will slip through. |
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