Bill C-24 and eligible applicant for July 2015

nadeem55 wrote: I'm newbie in this forum, heard and read alot about Bill C-24, I wanted to ask from seniors about my specific case, here's the time line: Work permit: July 2010 - May, 2013 PR granted: May, 2013 Time spent outside Canada (Vacations): almost 65 days Citizenship application due: July 2015 (2 years a PR and 2 years work permit (half day count before PR) = 1 year) Now if the bill come into effect in June, 2015 then according to the news and speculation that no days count before becoming PR then I'll be eligible for citizenship application in July, 2017 that's a long wait before I could call myself Canadian :( Can seniors advise if that's true?

It is true that when the residency requirement provisions in Bill C-24 take effect, to be qualified for a grant of citizenship the applicants must have been physically present in Canada for at least 1460 days while a PR and within the previous six years (plus meet other qualifications). That is, there will be NO credit for time spent living in Canada prior to the date the applicant landed (became a Permanent Resident).

So, yes, if the residency provisions in Bill C-24 come into force before you apply for citizenship, then the soonest you would be eligible will be four years from the date you became a Permanent Resident PLUS however many days you have traveled outside Canada. (While it is generally referred to as a "residency" requirement, it is actually a physical presence requirement, so any days traveled outside Canada will not count.)

Odds are very high that you will not qualify before the provisions in Bill C-24 take effect. Thus, yes indeed, odds are high you will not be eligible for citizenship until July 2017 if you spend zero more days outside Canada (assuming landing date May 2013 and 60 or so days spent outside Canada to date).




longer explanation for the above observations
Effective date of Bill C-24 residency provisions:

There has been very little official news about when the residency provisions in Bill C-24 will take effect. Early press release information about the adoption of Bill C-24 included a general statement, along the lines of what is expected, which said that the new provisions were expected to take effect in about a year. That was in June. About a year, then, is June 2015.

Many provisions in Bill C-24 have already come into force, and are now in effect. Technically the remaining provisions could come into force almost any time. I am sure the government, primarily the PMO (Prime Minister's Office), has a fairly firm date set, but even CIC personnel probably do not know what that date is. There is not likely to be much advance notice to the public.

It could be as late as July 1, 2015. My guess, just a guess, is that it will be no later than early June, 2015, perhaps sooner.



Impact on PR who landed May 2013 with pre-landing presence:

If the new provisions take effect before the two year anniversary of the date you landed, you absolutely will not be qualified until four years, plus the number of days absent after the date you landed and became a PR, at the soonest . . . that is, in mid-2017 plus however many more days you spend abroad.

If the new provisions do not take effect until after your two year anniversary since landing, there are various arguable possibilities, of being qualified, that might be advocated for someone in your position. But the odds of succeeding are very low, perhaps remote -- so not good as to make exploring them NOT worth the effort. (If you are a world class athelete or an internationally acclaimed scientist with, say, Nobel prize possibilities, odds might be good enough to explore the possible arguments; otherwise, even if you are a well-regarded surgeon or a renowned author, the odds are too slim to bother with.)

Thus, the odds are very high it will indeed be mid-2017, at the earliest, before you become eligible to apply for a grant of naturalized citizenship.



Calculation basics for anyone relying on pre-PR time:

For each additional, individual day in Canada after the two-year anniversary, the applicant loses one of the half-day credits for time before landing, as the pre-landing days fall outside the four year time frame. So, for as long as pre-landing days are relied upon for credit, for each day the PR has been absent since landing it effectively takes two more days in Canada, beyond the two-year anniversary, to reach the 1095 days of actual presence threshold.

Thus, for example, if you have been outside Canada 65 days since you landed in May 2013, under the current law there is no way for you to realistically be qualified, under the current law, before sometime in September, 2015. This is because you will only have (at most) 930 days of actual presence on the two year anniversary of landing (1095 minus 65), so it will take another 130 days beyond that to meet the 1095 days of actual presence threshold.

Since it is virtually certain that the Bill C-24 residency (presence) requirements will be in effect before September 2015, and you will not be qualified under the current before then, the four-year presence, based entirely on post-landing time, will apply for you, thus pushing your eligibility date until mid-2017 at the earliest.



Koo argument possibility:

I have seen one case in which it was argued that Koo criteria could apply to an applicant who applied prior to the three year anniversary of landing. It did not succeed. There were multiple reasons, based on additional unfavourable factors, why it did not succeed. That said, my sense is that even before Bill C-24 was adopted, this sort of case had a very poor prognosis, even if all the other factors were favourable.

I bring this up as one of those remote arguable possibilities I alluded to above. Technically, if you reach the two-year anniversary of landing before Bill C-24's residency provisions take effect, there is an argument you meet the basic residency requirement (three years since becoming a resident in fact in Canada plus minimum two years as a PR), and under the current law are thus eligible for a grant of citizenship.

Note: The current law is such that many PRs can be eligible but are not necessarily qualified. Indeed, under the current law any PR who landed at least three years previous is eligible even if he spent very little time actually in Canada . . . but obviously such a PR will be denied, as not having met the residency qualification (the PR is, nonetheless, entitled to a hearing with a Citizenship Judge and an opportunity to make the case that qualitative factors should be considered).

Odds of succeeding in making any Koo case appear to be quite low these days, let alone a shortfall case relying on credit for time prior to landing. By the time such a case, based on an application filed late May or June 2015, reached a Citizenship Judge, the law in effect will be (1) a strict physical presence test, (2) minimum four years presence, and (3) no credit at all for pre-PR time. Technically that law would not apply to anyone who applies before the date those provisions come into force, but no crystal ball is necessary to forecast how well (as in not well at all) a CJ might entertain an argument for a lenient, generous exercise of discretion to grant approval to an applicant who did not meet the shorter actual physical presence test (that is, had less than 1095 days APP) and applied relying on pre-PR credit.

nadeem55 wrote: Let's pray and hope for the best, since nobody knows when this act will becomes law, some people are speculating that this law will come in effect in August 2015 once the rest of provisions will granted the royal assent but I'm not positive on these views as we have after the bill C-24 has presented in July, 2014 right after a month some of the provisions become law in August 2014 :(

Regarding "nobody knows when this act will become law" in particular:

On the contrary, Bill C-24 has already become law, the entirety of the Act having been adopted and given Royal Assent June 19, 2014.

The provisions in Bill C-24 which amend section 5 of the Citizenship Act, to implement the four years in six physical presence requirement, have not yet come into force. While the Act specifically states that these provisions will "come into force" on a date to be determined by the Governor General in Council, in practice that means the Prime Minister's cabinet chooses the date, which in this government means it will be decided by the PMO (Prime Minister's Office), and it is quite likely that a date has already been decided upon.

As I said, in June the press releases from CIC said that the new residency provisions would come into force in about a year.

If it goes beyond a year, it could indeed be July of 2015.

My guess is that it will be less than a year, but no later than July 1, 2015. Just a guess, but one based on observing how this government has approached changes to immigration and citizenship since Harper became Prime Minister.

It warrants noting that some of the more profound changes to the Citizenship Act, including a dramatic shift in authority from Citizenship Judges to the Minister, thus in effect to Citizenship Officers, came into force on August 1, this year, with NO advance notice given to the public (beyond the public information about Bill C-24 having been adopted and receiving Royal Assent), CIC online information reflecting some of the changes later in the day on which those changes took effect, that is on August 1st, and official notice of the changes, including changes to Citizenship Regulations, not published in the Gazette until many days later.

For additional context, early this year CIC implemented other changes not based on changes to the governing law (statutory or regulation), such as doubling the required fee and adding documentation to be included with the application, likewise without any advance notice.

Even if there is some advance notice as to when the new residency requirement kicks in, it is likely to be minimal. Early this year, before Bill C-24 was even tabled, Minister Alexander had suggested changes would be implemented before the year's end. Best guess, thus, is that the new residency requirement will indeed come into force (it is already law) sometime between that suggested date (by end of this year) and the expressed expectation at the time Royal Assent was received, that it would be take effect in approximately a year (meaning mid-June next year).

For applicants such as yourself, this is probably bad news.

nadeem55 wrote: Thanks for the detailed reply the thing I want to clear is after granted PR status I spent only 20 days outside of Canada and rest of almost 34 days before getting PR status (when I was on Work permit) Since I calculated from govt. website about residency requirement, I'm eligible to apply for citizenship on July 17, 2015 if the rest of Bill C-24 provision won't come in effect by the end of July 2015, otherwise proclaiming myself an ill-fated :( this long tiring wait makes most of the immigrants frustrated.

Precise calculation of the date you will meet the residency requirement under the current law is more complicated when it depends on credit for pre-landing presence in Canada. Only way to reliably ascertain the earliest date is to use CIC's online calculator. The calculation will depend, for example, on when the 34 days of absence prior to landing occurred. With 20 days of absence since landing, that means the soonest you will reach the 1095 days APP threshold is at least 40 days after the two-year anniversary of landing. Plus another day and a half for every day absent prior to landing that was within four years of the date of applying. (That is, it matters when those 34 days of absence prior to landing took place.)

Ordinarily it is best to have at least a few weeks, if not a month or three, more than the minimum necessary to meet the residency requirement. But for someone in your position, an application made a week before the residency (presence) provisions in Bill C-24 take effect, versus the day after those provisions take effect, could make a difference of waiting two more years in order to be qualified. Thus, if you have the opportunity to apply before the new residency requirements come into force, it will make sense to do so even though your application has a fairly elevated risk, then, of being subject to a higher level of scrutiny, perhaps RQ.

Problem is that you may not have that opportunity. Indeed, while largely a guess, odds are you will not get that opportunity. (Odds are that the new residency requirement will be in effect before you are qualified under current law, and thus you will not be qualified until May 2017 plus however many days absent you are between date of landing and then.)

If by next June (mid-June 2015) the new residency requirement has not come into force, you should of course do a meticulous, very careful and thorough job of plugging your travel information into the online residency calculator, and identify the precise date you will meet the residency requirement under the current law. You should then be fully prepared to sign a completed application to submit, by the fastest delivery method possible, within a couple days after that date. There is some risk that one day will make the difference. But that goes both ways, because if you apply falling so much as one day short, the risk of encountering processing problems is high, the risk of denial is substantial. It will be important, critical actually, to get every date entered into the residency calculator exactly correct, and even then best to give yourself at least two days additional . . . at the risk of the new provisions coming into effect any day.

If there is advance notice of the precise date the new residency provisions will take effect, that will help you decide when to submit an application.

But, again, since it appears that you will not be qualified under the current law until mid-July at the soonest, unfortunately the odds are you are not going to get in under the wire but, rather, will have to wait until 2017.



No Credit for work permit time

nadeem55 wrote: I seriously hope, atleast Bill C-24 should value the time spent in Canada before PR (atleast Work Permit, Student, not a visitor) because these 2 categories are already contributed to Canadian economy, they have good knowledge of Canadian culture and got experience, they should really keep this provision, who knows.

My sense is that of course the government, even this government, will "value" the time an immigrant spends in Canada on a work permit.

But there is no doubt that there will be NO CREDIT toward qualifying for citizenship given to such time once the new residency requirement takes effect.

As I noted above, Bill C-24 has already, in its entirety, been adopted and given Royal Assent. The amended version of Section 5 is not in doubt.

So, while the government no doubt will continue to value the time an immigrant spends living in Canada on a work permit, it will not value it to the extent of giving credit for that time toward meeting the citizenship residency requirement.

There is no doubt, if you do not meet the qualifications for citizenship under the current law before the new requirements are in force, you will have to meet the 1460 days (four years) in six years requirement with NO CREDIT for any time in Canada prior to landing and becoming a Permanent Resident.

There is no doubt at all about this.

The relevant portion of the Citizenship Act will state (with emphasis added):

[a grant of citizenship will be given to a person who] (c) is a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, has, subject to the regulations, no unfulfilled conditions under that Act relating to his or her status as a permanent resident and has, since becoming a permanent resident, (i) been physically present in Canada for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of his or her application, (ii) been physically present in Canada for at least 183 days during each of four calendar years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of his or her application, and (iii) met any applicable requirement under the Income Tax Act to file a return of income in respect of four taxation years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of his or her application;

See this page (assuming url works) for the version of Bill C-24 which received Royal Assent on June 19, 2014.