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Citizenship applicaiton and travelling overseas?

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lena83 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 2:32pm
Hi ladies and gents.
 
I am wondering if anybody can help me. I had submitted my citizenship application in July of 2012. Since then I had not heard any more from CIC other than the initial acknowledgement letter. My question is, am I allowed to travel outside of Canada while I await a decision on my application. Is there a limit on how long I am allowed to be outside of Canada without jeopardizing my application.
 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Many thanks in advance Smile
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 3:31pm

Originally posted by lena83 lena83 wrote:

I am wondering if anybody can help me. I had submitted my citizenship application in July of 2012. Since then I had not heard any more from CIC other than the initial acknowledgement letter. My question is, am I allowed to travel outside of Canada while I await a decision on my application. Is there a limit on how long I am allowed to be outside of Canada without jeopardizing my application.


There is no Canadian restriction on PRs traveling abroad (any restrictions would be those imposed by the country traveled to; this is usually a function of which passport the individual is carrying and the country's policy towards persons carrying that passport).

Pending the processing of a citizenship application a PR is simply that, a Permanent Resident.

There is a limit on how long a PR can be abroad: to be in compliance with the PR residency obligation, the PR must be present in Canada 730 days in any five year time span. Again, a PR with a citizenship application pending is simply a PR, and thus still subject to all the rules, laws, regulations, and so on governing Permanent Residents, including the PR residency obligation.

CIC instructs citizenship applicants to notify CIC if they plan to be abroad more than two weeks. This is mostly about keeping CIC informed for purposes of scheduling events (interviews, tests, oath, hearings, and such).

CIC requires citizenship applicants to keep CIC informed of their current residential address. Generally staying somewhere more than a month is considered to be living at that location, and thus if the applicant is outside Canada more than a month, the applicant should notify CIC of the change in address (even if temporary -- and, sure, this is a factor which may influence CIC's perceptions about the applicant; see next paragraph).

Will an extended trip abroad jeopardize your citizenship application? Technically being abroad after applying does not change the calculation for determination of residency. That said, CIC tends to examine far more thoroughly (and take a lot longer in doing that) at least some applicants who go abroad for extended periods of time after applying. This is a more complicated aspect of things, having to do with evidentiary inferences and questions which are hard to pin down. There is a topic here specifically going into a lot of detail about "Leaving Canada after applying" . . . you may have to look back through pages of the topic titles to find it.



Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Smatcool View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smatcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 1:23pm
You need to tell CIC if you plan to be away for more than two weeks i believe.  Say you are going for a year, they will put your file ON HOLD until you come back. You can choose not to tell them but alot of things can go wrong.. so unless really necessary .. stay around !!
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imanh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imanh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2013 at 4:52pm
Hi Smatcool : what do you mean "they will put your file ON HOLD"? that doesn't really make sense to me. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smatcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by imanh imanh wrote:

Hi Smatcool : what do you mean "they will put your file ON HOLD"? that doesn't really make sense to me. Thanks

They will put it on the shelf until the applicant is back!! I know this first hand. Believe it or not.


Edited by Smatcool - 11 May 2013 at 5:52pm
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Vancan2012 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vancan2012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 6:50pm
Why not just update the address to the actual physical address outside Canada? Are there any limitations to having an address within Canada for the purposes of a citizenship application?
Vancouver S03/12 L03/12 IP11/12 RQ 03/13 XFER 03/13 Currently In Process
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Vancan2012 Vancan2012 wrote:

Why not just update the address to the actual physical address outside Canada? Are there any limitations to having an address within Canada for the purposes of a citizenship application?

I was always thinking it's not possible. At least in e-cas you can't change country from Canada to anything else. So, it's kind of strange to ask those staying abroad to update address, if it's not physically possible.

Some may won't agree with me, but I would try not to notify CIC of move abroad until absolutely necessary.

1st of all, I saw at least couple, maybe more times on citizenship forums when people properly notified CIC of leave only to find letter in their mailboxes upon return to (nearly) miss test/oath. So, you can't really rely on this.

A side note, but just to illustrate lack of CIC reliability further-- it turns out CIC is sending test/oath letters to home address, even if you explicitly specify a different mailing address.

2nd, if they really put case on hold while you're absent:

a) do you really need to jeopardize your case timeline even more with additional delays these days? Nobody knows how much your case will fall behind as a result, probably for significantly longer than an actual period of absence, finally it's a bureaucracy, which goal is not to give you best advice, but to make things according to regulations;

b) you'll need to make sure that "on hold" is removed after and case is back on track, do you really need this headache?

3rd, there's no law you should notify CIC, it's only their recommendation. But considering the quality of service CIC provides these days, it'd be justifiable to ignore it in some situations for your own good. If CIC was precise, reliable like a Swiss watch and benevolent, the advice could be different, but alas.

Think for yourself how to handle it. For the majority it shouldn't be too difficult to ask somebody to check for mail in their absence, apply for GCMS or make calls to CIC call centre (there's a number you can call CIC from overseas or skype) while traveling elsewhere.


Edited by EasyRider - 11 May 2013 at 7:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2013 at 2:15am

The very first sentence in the declaration the applicant signs, at the bottom of the citizenship application forms, states:
Quote I agree to advise Citizenship and immigration Canada if any information on this form changes before I take the Oath of Citizenship.

Home address is required information (item 5.A.).

I try to avoid offering personal advice, but I will occasionally and this is one of those occasions, my advice: Do not follow advice given by someone who has little or no regard for reporting things accurately.




***   ***   ***   ***   ***

In terms of making difficult decisions, yes, sometimes life does not flow altogether smoothly, and sometimes we must make difficult choices in our lives. Most of us have had a mentor of some sort or another who gave us at least a little guidance about identifying priorities, and factoring pros and cons relative to our priorities, some lessons about making choices.

Sometimes we gamble. When we gamble we should be frank with ourselves about what we are doing, what we are risking, why, and what the odds are, and always with the understanding that no matter how good the odds are, a gamble is still a gamble and that means sometimes we lose.

Many, many play games with CIC. More than a few do just fine. More than a few do not do well at all. In between there are those in limbo waiting in queue for the next step.

One thing to be aware of is that if CIC discovers the applicant has not been living at the address the applicant claims to be living, that could be problematic. It will not always be problematic. CIC is not out to penalize people, people making practical decisions, based on mere technicalities. But it can and seems to often open the door to additional questions and inquiry, and if CIC perceives that the applicant was willfully misleading CIC about where they were living, have been living, that is indeed quite likely to lead to problems.

I do not mean to tell anyone what decision to make about these things. For one thing, the variables range greatly. Generally, as most who read my posts know, my view is that following the instructions and being truthful works best for anyone who is qualified and genuinely pursuing becoming a Canadian citizen. But, sure, not everything fits nice and neatly all the time, and just like any Canadian highway, in the highway of life there are the posted speed limits, and how fast most of us drive, and how fast one is inclined to go on any particular occasion is a personal judgment call. For those who push the envelope, sooner or later they learn "but everyone else was going that fast" is not a good excuse.



Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Smatcool View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smatcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2013 at 9:29am
Originally posted by Vancan2012 Vancan2012 wrote:

Why not just update the address to the actual physical address outside Canada? Are there any limitations to having an address within Canada for the purposes of a citizenship application?

You cannot update your address with a foreign one. Even if you called the call centre. I believe CIC can take the home address altogether if they want.

I would not ever advise any one to withhold any information from CIC or any government agency for that matter, even when i think it will result in any unnecessary unjustified delays. I learned my lessons the hard way. Besides, sometimes it is not possible too. For example, when you have a working visa in a foreign country in your passport and you still have not done your interview or if you were sent an RQ and expect to see a judge.  Do the right thing and you will never regret!!


Edited by Smatcool - 12 May 2013 at 9:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2013 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by dpenabill dpenabill wrote:


The very first sentence in the declaration the applicant signs, at the bottom of the citizenship application forms, states:
Quote I agree to advise Citizenship and immigration Canada if any information on this form changes before I take the Oath of Citizenship.

Home address is required information (item 5.A.).

So, sure you read my post? It doesn't mean that if you do not update home address/phone number after you apply (forgot or for whatever reasons), it can possibly be a reason to refuse application. It can't. As I said, there's no law, and there's no law.

The part about updated address/phone information is primarily for CIC liability protection-- you can't have claims to CIC if you fail to receive communication from them because you've failed to update your contacts. In other words, it's applicant's responsibility to make sure CIC can communicate necessary info timely.

If applicant doesn't objectively interfere with CIC operation and judgement, it's not CIC's right to keep applicant liable for more.

It doesn't mean that in certain cases CIC may not chose to punish applicant with RQ, for example.

The other reference to notifying CIC of leaving (for 3 weeks or more, I think) is on it's website, and it's merely a precaution from getting notices during absence (and it sometimes fails to work too, so you can't 100% rely on it).

I you disagree, you can consult a real lawyer to get this understanding from, but you'll have to pay from your own pocket in this case.


Edited by EasyRider - 12 May 2013 at 1:12pm
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