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PR Card Renewal: Tax Assessment

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    Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 6:18pm
Can anyone advise on the the following requirement for PR card renewal:

"Other Income Tax assessments issued by Canada Revenue Agency within the past five (5) year"

For the last five years, I've alwaysd been on payroll, and did not file tax returns (because I did not owe anything, there is no such requirement) - I only filed one tax return because the Governemnt owed me money. Any idea what I should do in this situation? Thank you!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 7:44pm
I guess the answer is on the same page.

If you are unable to provide two secondary identity documents or proof of residence as described above, include a signed and dated statutory declaration clearly explaining the reasons why.

Perhaps I would though still file my taxes for 5 years back to get notices of assessment because in particular they show the type of income you receive (such as salary in Canada), which I guess what the CIC is interested in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spellbound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 8:13pm
Thank you. The income and employment can be easily shown through T4 Form and Record of Employment - just wondering if I should icnlude them to support my explanation...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 8:30pm
If I had to decide this for myself, I probably would include them with the explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 11:31pm

Hard to grasp how you could have T4s, been on a payroll, but not obligated to file a tax return.

That, of course, is not the issue since CIC is not in the business of enforcing tax laws. They are simply looking for the most objective evidence of residency in Canada.

So that is what you do, provide alternative documentation to show your presence in Canada and explain.

In the meantime, though, I have the sense you may have some misunderstanding about the obligation to file a tax return. If you were on a payroll, odds are very high you were required to file a tax return. If you had taxes withheld from your payroll, you were "paying tax" and thus required to file returns (the obligation is not, after all, based on whether there is a balance due at the end of the year). Probably a good idea to get the old returns filed -- at least consult with a professional about your obligations.


Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 2:10am
dpenabill, I am not sure that your reasoning about "you have to pay tax" applies to this case.

If I read this page

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/flng-blgtns/menu-eng.html

And I don't have to pay tax (meaning everything that is due has been paid already)

It seems that indeed I do not need to file a return?

Compare this with:

You have to contribute to the Canada Pension Plan (CPP). This can apply if, for 2012, the total of your net self-employment income and pensionable employment income is more than $3,500. See line 222.

It clearly gives a scenario when the payment of CPP is due and does not give a scenario where CPP was withheld and paid for you by your employer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 2:12am
And I suggest that you read another statement here:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/
"Why file a return (even if you have no tax to pay)."

And relate it to this:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/flng-blgtns/menu-eng.html
"You have to pay tax for 2012."

To me it is sort of beyond doubt that "you have to pay" means outstanding balance.
It does not mean cover the case "your employer withheld and paid for you".

Where am I wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 1:45pm

Originally posted by ski ski wrote:

To me it is sort of beyond doubt that "you have to pay" means outstanding balance.


That is NOT how it works.

I would suggest discussing this with an "accountant" but like immigration consultants, there are accounts and there are accountants.

Indeed, I have the sense (given that both of you seem to be on the same, wrong page regarding this) that just as there are too many not-so-reliable consultants providing not-so-good immigration and citizenship advice, that there is a community of not-so-reliable tax advisers providing not-so-good advice as well.

Basically it comes down to this: If you are working in Canada, if you have an income in Canada, it is almost certain you are obligated to file a tax return.

In particular, if an individual is on a payroll in Canada and the employer is withholding taxes, in all but some very rare instances that individual is legally obligated to file a Canadian tax return. An amount is being withheld because that individual has to pay tax for that year.

In contrast, if it really is the case that an individual on a payroll does not have to pay a tax for that year there should be NO withholding, and I understand there are forms which can be filed which will facilitate this, so the employer will not withhold taxes (for an employee who will not owe any tax for the year). But, of course, this is only for an individual who will not have to pay any tax for that year, who will owe no tax. This would be extremely rare for anyone with a regular income.

If you have been on a payroll and not filing a return, I suggest you file the returns, and do so for any year you had any significant income. If you doubt this at all, I suggest you consult with a reputable, reliable accountant/tax adviser, not just anyone who has hung a shingle or otherwise represents themselves to be a tax adviser/consultant.



In the meantime, in case you are still unclear about this:

Look at a typical 2011 Federal return. Line 435 should state what the payable tax is. If there is a positive amount entered there, the individual has to "pay a tax for 2011." (Thus is legally required to file a return.)

It is not whether there is a positive amount in line 485 that matters; it is whether there is a positive amount listed in line 435.

On line 437 that is where the individual reports the total income tax deducted by the individual's employer. This will be stated on the T4s. There are other payments/refunds/credits listed in lines 440 through 479. The total of these gets deducted from the "total payable," that is, from line 435.

You appear to be focused on the situation where the total credits (line 482) is equal to or greater than the total payable (line 435), meaning, as you say "everying that is due has been paid already."


In other words:
What has been paid already?
-- "everything that is due"

What is due?
-- the payable tax

Meaning the individual is someone who was required to pay a tax, the tax was duly withheld from payroll, and that individual is legally required to file a tax return.



Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 6:35pm

Note:

-- Just checked the form for 2012 (will be doing ours soon); on the T1 General the line numbers are the same as for 2011, as in the individual reports "total payable" on line 435; line 437 is where total deducted is listed (taken from T4s); line 482 is for "total credits" (essentially total of all paid).

Again, the question is not whether there is a balance owing after subtracting total credits from total payable. It is whether there is any amount in the total payable category . . . that is the amount owed for taxes regardless of how those are paid.

In particular, fact that enough was withheld from an employee so that the balance owing is zero does not mean that employee did not have to pay a tax for that year; on the contrary, if tax was withheld, that is for the tax the employee has to pay for the year. No question: such an employee is legally obligated to file a tax return.

There is no penalty for not filing a return if the withholding fully covered all that would be owed, since the penalty is based on how much the balance owing was, but this should not be confused with the obligation to file a return. As a practical matter it is extremely unlikely that the amount withheld exactly equals the amount of tax payable -- that is, it would be an extremely unlikely coincidence if the amount payable and the amount withheld were exactly equal . . . in fact, withholding rules (formula which mandates how much an employer withholds) generally lean toward withholding some excess for full time employees. Part-time employees, in contrast, often do not have enough withheld. Almost no one ever has the exact amount withheld (rules for withholding do not account for a lot of factors particular to the individual.)

Which leads to why I am posting this follow-up.



The real reason for this follow-up post:

If the advice about not needing to file a return comes from the employer:
BE WARY, BE VERY WARY


It is possible that the employer too misunderstands. But this is not likely. It is more likely that the employer is scamming the employee, withholding an amount supposedly for taxes but keeping that amount for himself. I have no idea how extensive this scam is, but it is one that is used to exploit some immigrants who are not familiar with the Canadian system.

In particular, if the employer says to the employee: the exact amount was withheld so you do not need to file a return, that is a red flag. Big time red flag.


Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spellbound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 6:58pm
Thank you. However, I just checked with the CAR  -after putting me on hold the agent confirmed that I am NOT required to file tax returns in this situation. Last year I filed tax returns for 2008 - everything was fine, I got the refund, this year I am going to file at least 2009. I know quite a number of people who do not file their tax returns because they are not required to. Cheers! 
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