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Canada Timeline vs USA, UK, Australia, Newzealand.
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EasyRider View Drop Down
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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 1:44pm
Lol. It was angry and semi-sarcastic post, as I remember. The full sentence:

"The facts that it's easier to satisfy citizenship requirements there, for example, days before PR count as full days (unlike in Canada) and you only need 1 year of PR min (2 years in Canada), and that citizenship is processed in 3 months make Australia even easier to use and abuse than Canada and will lead to faster country deterioration."

And there were several reasons for it:
  1. There are lots of Australian citizens relocating and living abroad (approx. 1 million), especially to the US.

  2. Immigrants, being an active bunch are more likely to move again after getting citizenship. A lot of them don't really like Australia.

  3. It's easier/faster to qualify and get citizenship there (e.g. need just 1 year as PR, no 1/2 days for being on work or study visa), so e.g. coming to Australia to study in university, then waiting 1 year as PR and 30 days to get citizenship will seem a good idea for some to put an Australian passport in a pocket and move on.

    Somebody can just easily wait this short period to get passport and then move back to make a career with a western passport in China, Middle East or move to the US. It's not a secret there's little growth in the west these days and a lot of going on in developing countries. They wouldn't pull that trick in Canada with the current system. 

  4. Some members here on forum seem to be thinking it's an "abuse" to get citizenship and move to somewhere else after.
So here we go.
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unloadmymind View Drop Down
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Points: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unloadmymind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 1:52pm
"it's easier to use and abuse"
"A lot of them don't really like Australia."

any evidence?
and you don't become a PR easily. it's not like you get PR immediately after studying or working.
even the "E-3" US working visa for Australians is undersubscribed.


Edited by unloadmymind - 07 Mar 2013 at 1:55pm
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unloadmymind View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SK SK wrote:



Originally posted by EasyRider
...citizenship is processed in 3 months make Australia even easier to use and abuse than Canada and will lead to faster country deterioration.
 
 
"faster country deterioration"- So the time to check countries deterioation is at the time of issues citizenehships ...is it.....when the country is issuing PR...and letting someone in .....it makes no difference....very immature way to analyse things......
 
time for filter is at PR stage not at citizenship stage....when you decided that someone is good for you to be in ur contry indefinitly.....then as long as they meet required criterion by alw...further filtering them is simply unjust.....


exactly. the primary filter should be at the PR stage. only potential citizens with the right mix of language skills, qualifications, etc should be allowed to take PR. it's something that Kenney is trying to model from the Australian SkillSelect PR system.
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EasyRider View Drop Down
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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by unloadmymind unloadmymind wrote:

"it's easier to use and abuse"
"A lot of them don't really like Australia."

any evidence? 
I'm into studying expat living through various means and there's indication that Australia is one of these polarized places, where people actually living there tend to have love/hate relationships with more often than usual. The UK, for example, is a neutral universal place.

Hardly you will be able to find something so hateful about the US or UK from people living there:

http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Hate-Living-In-Australia/14065

Originally posted by unloadmymind unloadmymind wrote:


and you don't become a PR easily. it's not like you get PR immediately after studying or working.
even the "E-3" US working visa for Australians is undersubscribed.
True, but in Canada you need to get PR first AND THEN go through the more lengthy process of qualification for citizenship and its abysmal processing times.

For example, any student/temp worker will need to wait at least 2 years after becoming PR before applying no matter how much time (s)he spent in Canada, and each day before will count only as 1/2.

And then 21 months + possibly some years(?) of RQ happiness and a date with CJ?


Edited by EasyRider - 07 Mar 2013 at 2:17pm
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EasyRider View Drop Down
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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by unloadmymind unloadmymind wrote:

exactly. the primary filter should be at the PR stage. only potential citizens with the right mix of language skills, qualifications, etc should be allowed to take PR. it's something that Kenney is trying to model from the Australian SkillSelect PR system.
Agree, but good filter for PR's is already in place-- CSIS, police cheeks, medical admissibility, education, qualifications, experience etc. So, what the hell exactly takes them 21 months + possibly some bonus years to "process" application?
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Observation:

Yes, the path to citizenship is a major component of Canadian immigration policy. It is a key component in terms of what is just for immigrants who make Canada their lifetime home, and in terms of an incentive to draw skilled workers for whom the certainty and security of citizenship is an important factor.

However, an intent to live in Canada for life is not a condition for Permanent Residence. Indeed, Canada does not even require PR applicants to have an intent to live in Canada permanently or long-term or for any particular duration of time. So, no, Canada is not screening PR applicants relative to qualification for citizenship. There is no indication this will change in the near future.

In particular, maintaining PR status in Canada is not dependent on intent and the residency obligation is very liberal, as PRs can maintain their Canadian PR status even though they spend more time living abroad than they do living in Canada (PRs can live abroad three years out of five and still be in compliance with the PR residency obligation).

Indeed, there are a great many people who obtain PR status in Canada so they can live and work in Canada even though they intend to maintain their primary ties to their home country (or, in some instances to some other country). I know more PRs who have been PRs for many, many years, and have no intent to become citizens of Canada, than I know who have become or intend to become citizens. That is, I know many PRs who intend to live and work in Canada so long as that is conducive to their careers, though for some it more or less about raising their children in Canada, but who intend to eventually go to their home country.



Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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peter95 View Drop Down
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Points: 167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 3:20pm
PRs who r not intending to become citizens have their own reasons but who r here for lifetime and want to become citizens then why  they get harrassment.  for citizenship it is not required to give reasons why u applied for citizenship. You r here for yr kids education really a funny reason what about people own life u mean they dont want to stay here for good
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SK View Drop Down
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Points: 385 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 3:39pm

As i said one can always find exceptions....people who do not intend to live in canada for ever...people who do long live long enough....people who do not have enough ties.....and much more....

 
All that is besides the point......as long as there is a law that defines qualifications......these questions dont really matter a lot....and if you make them count outside the prescribed law...its unjust and inhumane at worst....
 
the onus of staying for ever in canada......the onus of breaking all the ties fromt he world and put everything in canada.....not taking up jobs outside that may be more lucrative for even short term(2-5 years).....caring for old parents.......these are all real life scenarios to which any country with somewhat liberal policy has to accomodate.....and cannot be penalised.......
 
How does CIC or anyone know that if after fulfilling all the obligations for citizensip and more (buying a house...moving for ajob to europe for 4 years after 2 years of citizenship application in RQ,taking care of old parent in home country...) means that one is cutting all the connections from Canada....
 
 
The same amount of onus is not put on Canadians ........they are free (so are PR but actually they are not..as there are repurcutions).....
 
To cut is short...make the citizenship eligibility 5 years...instead of 3 and make it count only from date of landing ......but dont abuse the system by delaying acceptance or rejection of applications.....
 
People can plan their lives ....jobs....and the sacrifices they need to make to this country and to be its citizen.....and there are a lot of those already till the date of oath...its unfair to ask then to do more ....just to catch 4 thugs......
 
I would even say put a conditional approval...that one has to be in canada for atleast 2 years of the first 5 years of its citizneship days ..to retain the passport.....
 
whatever....but dont keep people hanging for what ever reason for 6 years..for that matter 2 years is a long time too..
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unloadmymind View Drop Down
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Originally posted by EasyRider EasyRider wrote:




[QUOTE=unloadmymind]I'm into studying expat living through various means and there's indication that Australia is one of these polarized places, where people actually living there tend to have love/hate relationships with more often than usual. The UK, for example, is a neutral universal place.
Hardly you will be able to find something so hateful about the US or UK from people living there:
<span style="line-height: 1.4;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Hate-Living-In-Australia/14065</span>

aha! lol that's quite a scientific study!

i wonder why at present there are over 1million British-born migrants who now live in Australia? and the no.1 source country for new Australian citizens is the U. K.? i don't understand.

surely there are some people who don't like Australia (just like in any country) but they make a less than significant proportion of the population.

and many Australians who move overseas come back home because they have high expectations of life overseas.
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EasyRider View Drop Down
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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by unloadmymind unloadmymind wrote:

aha! lol that's quite a scientific study! 

i wonder why at present there are over 1million British-born migrants who now live in Australia? and the no.1 source country for new Australian citizens is the U. K.? i don't understand. 

surely there are some people who don't like Australia (just like in any country) but they make a less than significant proportion of the population. 

and many Australians who move overseas come back home because they have high expectations of life overseas. 
I'm just saying it's less universal and more polarized place meaning it may be a lot more challenging for immigrants (not only from Britain) to integrate into Australian society in comparison with the US or UK, for example. Hence a lot people will want to leave, but after getting passport with such lax laws, especially people from "3rd world" countries (check how many developed countries one can visit with a Chinese passport-- the answer is none).

Simple search for "Australia immigrants leave" shows it's a hot topic, while it's not true to such extent for some other countries and doesn't have that tone.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/lifestyle/article/-/12721871/MigrantsleavingAustralia-TodayTonight_files/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15799571
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