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Definition of a day trip
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netghost View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 1:39pm
Does anyone know what is the exact definition of a day trip in terms of physical presence days? The reason I'm asking is because I was making frequent trips to US with leaving in the morning and returning in the evening. However couple of times I had interesting cases, where I would get to the border at, say, 23:55, but by the time I got through the line of cars to the booth, it might already have been 0:01 or 0:02. One time I even got to a border crossing when they were about to shut it down (there is a crossing that is open only from 08:00 till 0:00). They already had the cameras turned off and the officer at the booth had to ask me my license plate# so he could record it.

I didn't keep track of these cases. When I called CIC call center with such a question, their reply was smth along the lines of "this is still a day trip, since you didn't spend a night in US. We are not going to strictly go after you for missing several minutes". However, with all these recent RQ discussions I'm now worried that I might have underdeclared my days of absences if matching the CBSA records would cause several occasions not to be considered day trips. I requested my CBSA records, but I don't have them yet. I assume in the records they timestamp entries up to minutes and seconds.
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Vancan2012 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by netghost netghost wrote:

Does anyone know what is the exact definition of a day trip in terms of physical presence days? The reason I'm asking is because I was making frequent trips to US with leaving in the morning and returning in the evening. However couple of times I had interesting cases, where I would get to the border at, say, 23:55, but by the time I got through the line of cars to the booth, it might already have been 0:01 or 0:02. One time I even got to a border crossing when they were about to shut it down (there is a crossing that is open only from 08:00 till 0:00). They already had the cameras turned off and the officer at the booth had to ask me my license plate# so he could record it.

I didn't keep track of these cases. When I called CIC call center with such a question, their reply was smth along the lines of "this is still a day trip, since you didn't spend a night in US. We are not going to strictly go after you for missing several minutes". However, with all these recent RQ discussions I'm now worried that I might have underdeclared my days of absences if matching the CBSA records would cause several occasions not to be considered day trips. I requested my CBSA records, but I don't have them yet. I assume in the records they timestamp entries up to minutes and seconds.

I think a day trip is a trip where you leave after 0.00 and come back before 23:59 the same calendar day. With that being said, I highly recommend waiting for your report to have the exact dates. The only thing you need from the report are the dates, not the hours/minutes (the report doesn't show seconds). The safest way to account for days is to look at the days irrelevant of the hours/minutes as that's what CIC will consider to be your return day. Obviously if you returnat 0.05 you should have filed at least a trip of 1 day (not a day trip) as you couldn't have left Canada and come back in less than 5 minutes. I agree that this is not exactly fair as you have probably left Canada around 6 or 7 pm and came back after a dinner or something but it's just the way things are.
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netghost View Drop Down
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Does the "less than 24h" in the highway passage report have any play into that? Btw, in the residency calculator FAQ (https://eservicesak.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq) it never gives a specific definition of "same day trip". The only thing it mentions is "on the same day", and at least from talking on the phone with CIC they do consider coming back just past midnight still "on the same day", although I don't know how true is that.
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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The calculation of days is calendar-based. No reason to interpret "day trip" any other way . . . and especially so when day trips are referred as as trips in which one returns to Canada the "same day" . . . not within 24 hours, but the same day.

In other words: ditto Vancan2012.

Head across the border to do a bit of gambling just before midnight, win a bundle quick, and return to Canada just after midnight: not a day trip. Should be disclosed. Counts as a day outside Canada.

Note, however, I think it is safe to infer that CIC does not engage in draconian nitpicking. A single day off here or there is not likely to change their assessment. Overall impressions, though, can probably dramatically affect how minute details are evaluated. In other words: one applicant who is off by a day here and another day there may nonetheless sail through the process, no RQ, no problems, while another applicant who fails to accurately account for every single day may indeed get RQ and find themselves having to prove presence and residence.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Vancan2012 View Drop Down
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Welcome back dpenabill! We had an entire thread about your whereabouts. Though some morons made negative comments. Your comments and time into this are much appreciated!
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nwtspam View Drop Down
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It's no longer a day trip after mid-night. The day ends at 23:59 every day.

You crossed the border at Sept 27 23:45, and returned at Sept 28 00:15, that was 2 days in the US.
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Vancan2012:
Thank you.

nwtspam:
Quote You crossed the border at Sept 27 23:45, and returned at Sept 28 00:15, that was 2 days in the US.
Yes. Correct. But, to be clear, it is only one day of absence, one day "outside" Canada.

Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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netghost View Drop Down
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I'm still waiting for my CBSA traveller and highway passage report. It would be interesting to see the actual data, because I might have had a case when my car was photographed by the cameras before midnight, but PR card might have been scanned by the officer after midnight (it takes up to a minute for the general set of interview questions "where do you live", "how long were you away", "purpose of your trip", "what's the total value of goods coming back with you", "any alcohol or tobacco"). Interesting edge case scenario.

Edited by netghost - 28 Sep 2012 at 2:25pm
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