Canada Immigration and Visa Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Canada Immigration Topics > Canadian Citizenship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Fed.court: 1101 days, missing passport...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Fed.court: 1101 days, missing passport...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
akella View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 714
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fed.court: 1101 days, missing passport...
    Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 11:54pm
Another interesting case from Fed. court website:

THE MINISTER OF CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION vs. DJENABOU HOPE DIALLO

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2012/2012fc1537/2012fc1537.html

Applicant had:
  • 1157 days of basic and 1101 days of physical presence
  • Children in Canada
  • Extensive evidence (medical visits, wireless bills, statements, etc.)

But:

  • Missing diplomatic passport (that covered 9 months out of the reference period)
  • Husband applied separately

Outcome:

  • Negative for the applicant (MCI's appeal allowed)
While it is debatable how much of the outcome is on the applicant, I find interesting the following

Quote
[22]           In the present case, the question of the diplomatic passport takes on even more importance because the respondent accumulated only six (6) days of presence over the minimum required by the Act. As counsel for the applicant rightly pointed out at the hearing before this Court, if the respondent left Canada even once, that could mean that she did not attain the minimum number of days of presence in Canada under the Act. Accordingly, in the circumstances, the Court finds that the citizenship judge should have dealt with the absence of such a central and determinative piece of evidence in her decision. The Court can only observe that the notes of the citizenship judge show that this aspect was completely disregarded.

[23]           Because of the occasional gaps in the documentary evidence, as voluminous and substantial as it is (863 pages), combined with the absence of the diplomatic passport, it would be unreasonable to find, on a balance of probabilities, that the respondent was in Canada for the required period preceding her citizenship application.


There was also a reference to the paragraph from Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration) v El Bousserghini, 2012 FC 88 that is interesting as well and I think was not covered in our previous discussions (paragraph 19 - mentioning "excessive burden"):


Quote More specifically, in El Bousserghini, the respondents had been required to turn in their old passports to the Moroccan government, and they had explained this fact to the citizenship judge. The Court stated the following at paragraph 19:

[19] Regarding the first point, in my opinion the Minister imposes an excessive burden on the respondents. In civil cases, the applicable standard of proof is the balance of probabilities. Although citizenship is a privilege, the Act does not require corroboration. It is the responsibility of the original decision-maker, taking the context into consideration, to determine the extent and nature of the evidence required (Mizani v Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration); Abbott Estate v Toronto Transportation Commission; Lévesque v Comeau). I agree that it would be extremely unusual and perhaps reckless, to rely on the testimony of an individual to establish his residency, with no supporting documentation. I also agree that passports are the best evidence, as long as they have been stamped at each point of entry. Whether it was a failure to produce a document or a failure to call a witness who could corroborate the facts in the citizenship application, the decision-maker could come to an adverse finding. No questions were raised regarding the respondents’ explanation that they had to turn in their passports to the Moroccan government to obtain new ones. Although it would have been preferable for them to have kept a copy of these passports, the respondents cannot be punished for not doing so considering the judge was convinced they were physically present in Canada.

[citations omitted; emphasis added]


Lessons learned?

  • (again) Pretty much anything can be called incomplete
  • You better have all your passports
  • Buffer days? (split on this one)





Edited by akella - 23 Jan 2013 at 12:05am
Back to Top
Vancan2012 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vancan2012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 12:48am
I don't think buffer days would have made much difference, except if she had close to a year in which case it would be hard to argue that she *only* had 365 days over the minimum. With that being said, I think old passports are pretty important to have during the test, as they clearly indicate most of the absences the applicant may have had during the relevant 4 year period.
Vancouver S03/12 L03/12 IP11/12 RQ 03/13 XFER 03/13 Currently In Process
Back to Top
Vancan2012 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vancan2012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 1:02am
Well, any buffer of more than the 9 months on question would've helped, actually. I read the entire case now and I think this is one of those situations a bigger buffer would've made sense. I always say buffer is useless but also say so under the condition that all days are accounted for and no major RQ triggers (missing passport) are present.
Vancouver S03/12 L03/12 IP11/12 RQ 03/13 XFER 03/13 Currently In Process
Back to Top
john_10 View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john_10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 1:19am
But what happens when the government takes old passports, whats the solution? go to the test with an expired one??
Back to Top
john_10 View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john_10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 1:20am
even copying the passports might not help since it could mean that you couldve copied it any time when it was valid!!!
Back to Top
dpenabill View Drop Down
Top Member
Top Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 6407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 3:41am

Quote john_10:
Quote But what happens when the government takes old passports, whats the solution? go to the test with an expired one??

even copying the passports might not help since it could mean that you couldve copied it any time when it was valid!!!


Not all governments take the expired passport. CIC is well familiar with those which do. In that regard see dicta in the MCI and Bousserghini and Kranfouli case, quoted in part in the MCI and Diallo case, distinguishing instances where there are well-defined explanations for not producing the passport (and in Bousserghini in particular the Justice overtly said that keeping copies would have been the preferrable thing for the applying PRs to have do).

Thus, a photocopy should, ordinarily suffice. Not for everyone however. Some applicants are more suspicious, in CIC's eyes than others. (One can always go to a notary and have a copy of the passport certified, date specified in the certificate.)


863 pages of documentary evidence versus one missing passport

The child in me wants to say, with some emphasis: I told you so.

I have, though, indeed, explained this in more than a little detail, with reasons, an analysis relying on three decades plus of professional jurisprudence.

I am not sure why it is so hard for some to grasp the simple relationship between what is persuasive evidence as opposed to mere quantitative evidence which is largely cumulative. If the key documentary evidence is insufficient to meet CIC's standard of proof, a huge pile of detailed documentation is not going to matter all that much. (Note: cumulative evidence is not really relevant; this is evidence 102, maybe even evidence 101.)

In any event, I will address this further in the appropriate topic for discussing Federal Court cases and proof of residency generally.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
Back to Top
mvb View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Status: Offline
Points: 54
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mvb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 9:51am
Originally posted by john_10 john_10 wrote:

But what happens when the government takes old passports, whats the solution? go to the test with an expired one??



Whether going to the test with expired passport doesn't raise any questions? I am just wondering about that possibility.



Edited by mvb - 23 Jan 2013 at 9:52am

Back to Top
cvv31 View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Location: Ottawa
Status: Offline
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cvv31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 9:57am
If you have an expired passport, that means you cannot travel, am I right ? so isn't that a proof that you reside in Canada.
 
I almost did not renew mine because I am not travelling then I had a second thought and changed my mine. I still don't travel but I renewed  mine!
 
Is there something I am missing here ?
Back to Top
akella View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 714
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 10:59am
Originally posted by cvv31 cvv31 wrote:

If you have an expired passport, that means you cannot travel, am I right ? so isn't that a proof that you reside in Canada.
 
I almost did not renew mine because I am not travelling then I had a second thought and changed my mine. I still don't travel but I renewed  mine!
 
Is there something I am missing here ?

No, unfortunately. I think there was at least one case where this (reasonable, I must say) logic was reversed:
  • You show us an expired passport?
  • Oh, this means you have a newer one or another travel document that you travel on and that you are not showing to us.
  • Alarm, alarm!

In short, better renew it if you can.



Edited by akella - 23 Jan 2013 at 10:59am
Back to Top
mvb View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Location: Ottawa
Status: Offline
Points: 54
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mvb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 11:12am
Originally posted by akella akella wrote:


No, unfortunately. I think there was at least one case where this (reasonable, I must say) logic was reversed:
  • You show us an expired passport?
  • Oh, this means you have a newer one or another travel document that you travel on and that you are not showing to us.
  • Alarm, alarm!

In short, better renew it if you can.




Fantastic answer...to keep in mind.

Thanks

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down