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Is my PR status gone or not? Please help.

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pring View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Jun 2011 at 8:29pm
I lived in Canada in more than 30 years ago with my husband and children and we all got PR status except one of my children who was born in Canada and is a Canadian citizen.

We left Canada for 20 year with all my children and husband and my Canadian born child came back to live in Canada and now has family here. I have been visiting my Canadian born child on visitor visa and some just told me that I can reactivate my PR status since I was not told by immigration I lost the PR status when I applied for visa to visit my Canadian born child. I did not ask them or talk about PR status as when I applied for visa.

BUT I am wondering how that can be true since I have come under visitor visa and when I applied for the visitor visa I was not told by the embassy that I had PR status or that it was not valid.

Please help to tell me if this reactivation of PR status is possible? Thank you for your help in advance.
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scylla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scylla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2011 at 11:30pm
Your PR status is long gone. There is no reactivation process.

Your Canadian born child can sponsor you for PR provided he/she has sufficient income. However this process currently takes 5+ years to be completed.
Outland Spousal (Buffalo):
App recd: 05/28/2010
Sponsor approved: 06/28/2010
Processing started: 08/19/2010
Passport request: 10/01/2010
Landed: 10/05/2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timbit_TO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 12:43am
Here's a link to a paper presented by an immigration lawyer on the subject of residency obligation for permanent residents.  In particular at the bottom of p. 3 it states:

Residency Obligations after the First Five Years

For those persons that have been permanent residents for more than five years, it is sufficient to show that they comply with the residency obligations for the previous five-year period. Time before that, whether inside or outside Canada, will not be considered.

A28(2)(b) it is sufficient for a permanent resident to demonstrate at examination (ii) if they have been a permanent resident for five years or more, that they have met the residency obligation in respect of the five-year period immediately before the examination; and

This is an important provision for two reasons.

First, it shows that entering Canada and remaining for 730 days can repair any past breaches of residency obligations.


Law (the). Nobody knows what it is.
Gustave Flaubert, Le Dictionnaire des idées reçues
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 2:15am
timbit_TO is correct. scylla is not -- except scylla is right that there is no "reactivation" process but that is because there is no temporary or provisional in-between status. You either are a PR or you are not.

If you were a PR, you either lost it (which requires adjudication) or you are still a PR. (Sounds like you still are a PR.)

If a person is not a PR, including a person who was but who lost PR status through an adjudicated process (which can be as simple as a removal order issued which becomes enforceable, or a TD application denied and not appealled) there is nothing to reactivate.

Former PRs are, simply, Foreign Nationals, and stand in the shoes of any other FN (recognizing that not all FNs are, however, treated equally).

If you are a PR, you may nonetheless be inadmissible and subject to having your PR status revoked for being in breach of the residency obligation.

But, as timbit_TO says, it does not matter where in the world you were prior to June 15th, 2006, or for how long, even twenty years. For purposes of the residency obligation, what matters is where you have been in the immediately preceding five years, and whether or not during that time you have been in Canada for 730 days.

Now, here's the rub, the tough part: if you are legally in Canada and have not been issued a removal order, all you have to do is stay for two years, for at least 730 days (or, if you have been in Canada periodically during the last few years, for a total of 730 days within the immediately preceding five years) and you are no longer in breach of the residency obligation and can apply to have your PR card issued to you and so on. The catch, though, is that legally part. You must have made certain representations in the application for a visitor's visa. If you made misrepresentations or omitted material facts, that could be a problem. I am not sure if it will be, but it could be. Probably want to see an immigration lawyer about that.

One other small catch: you will need some of your original documentation in order to prove that who you are is the person who had PR status and who is thus still a PR. Do not apply for replacements for these documents (assuming you no longer have them) until you have been in Canada for more than two years. See the PR card application form (the form for renewal or replacement of PR card) to see what documentation you will need. But, again, if you are in Canada, and you can stay without drawing any attention to your status, stay for two years and your PR status should be good.



Edited by dpenabill - 15 Jun 2011 at 2:17am
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 6:20am
Thank you all so much for the replies. I have also talk to my child to understand more and this is the full story.

I am legally here in Canada on visitor visa and document extensions. Been 3 years visisting my Canadian born child under visitor visa and I have been extending my status legally. I have to return to my country in 3 weeks time to renew my passport. My child has already began sponsorship process and received reply from Missauga that the sponsorship request is approved and I have been informed to begin the permanent resident application from my country.

I am confused because if I have been on visitor status like a non resident how do I establish I am PR in the application. Will that not cause trouble? Am I better off waiting for the PR sponsorship of my child to go through? 

I have lost my original document but I have my original client number for my old PR but in the sponsorship application by my child the number they assign me is different.

I have never lie on any application so that is not a problem. Should I make the application for PR card before I leave or should I wait for my child sponsorship to go through and forget about the old PR status?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timbit_TO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 9:38am
You will be well advised to seek personalized professional advice from an reputable attorney or consultant who can review all the details of your individual situation.  I feel it would be unwise for you to base your decisions solely on the advice of anonymous strangers from an internet forum, such advice in itself being based on the bits and pieces of information you have chosen to reveal.
Law (the). Nobody knows what it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 12:34pm
Yes, you probably do want to see an immigration lawyer and see one soon, very soon.

There are many, many things that could affect your status, and could affect whether or not you can actually be granted new PR status through sponsorship. You want to get this sorted out soon. (But it will not get sorted out in just three weeks. Hard to say what to do in meantime.)

For example, one potential problem with the sponsorship at this stage is that, ironically, if you still do have PR status, and even if that status is subject to being revoked (for whichever of the reasons removal may be appropriate, breach of the residency obligation being the obvious one), that makes you ineligible to be sponsored . . . and so if they discover this at any time in the process, it would result in a denial (although there may be a process available for getting the PR status is revoked without having to start over -- this is something a lawyer would be able to sort out).

Your visitor visa client number should be the same as the one given you in the sponsorship application. However, you should have the same client number for life, so it should have been the same as the one you had as a PR. Multiple client numbers are not uncommon, especially when the earlier one is from a long time ago, but your disclosures should have resulted in them being alerted to your earlier records by now.

You say you never lied . . . but "misrepresentation" can be done in various ways, including by omission, and something is not adding up or they would have already identified you as a PR. Again, a lawyer (NOT a consultant, by the way, but an experienced, recognized immigration lawyer.)

Thus, while having been in Canada legally for three years should mean that you now meet the residency obligation, if you are indeed still a PR, something is out of order here.

The circumstances under which you left Canada may have something to do with this. The law was significantly different 20 years ago as well as 30 years ago, and was based on an entirly different Act 35 years ago, so someone with the background to fully examine your history in the context of the then extant law really needs to be consulted before you take any more steps.

Good luck.





Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harmonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2011 at 1:06pm

I am pretty sure you will get a reply from CIC saying that you cannot be sponsored because you are already a landed immigrant, and that if you want to proceed with the sponsorship, you should apply for a travel document (which seems to be the quickest way to get a PRD / Permanent Residency Determination on your existing status). 

That's what happened to my spouse and I.  She had landed immigrant status in the 70's.  We wrongly assumed that you lost status automatically if you didn't live up the residency obligations.  That's not the case. 
 
I consulted with 3 different immigration lawyers who all agreed that my wife was technically still a PR.  Each lawyer had different recommendations, each with varying degrees of risk. 
 
The last thing we wanted to happen was to have her barred from Canada for whatever reason. 
 
To the OP: I sent you a condensed version of our situation via pvt msg - but it is important to know that every situation is different, and that YOU will have to make decisions that best suit your situation.  That's where getting a few legal opinions can help -- ask them what the lowest-risk option is for your situation, as well as the possible consequences of doing anything other than the lowest-risk.
 
Best of luck.
Citizenship App Sent: December 2012
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