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REGULATE STATUS???

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Meesha View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 1:53pm
I've never been so confused!!! 
I'm American, my fiancee' is Canadian. My extension of stay was denied twice. I just got off the phone with Immigration and they told me that in order to apply outland, I first have to regulate my status... So I have to leave Canada and go back to the states, then come back to Canada. At the border I have to ask for a "visitor record" which will allow me to stay in Canada for a certain amount of time, and cross the border as needed.... Has anyone heard of this??????? What if they don't let me back into Canada at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nevergiveup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 2:04pm

If you intend to permanently leave in Canada, then you need to have for fiancee to sponsor you from outland (which by the way is faster than inland application). It is important to know that she can't not sponsor you as FIANCEE/ENGAGED. You need to be either MARRIED or in a COMMON LAW relationship to be sponsored.

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Meesha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meesha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 2:07pm
Yes, we are common law... We've lived together since October 2009... I understand about the outland sponsorship. But I was wondering about the "regulation of status" part.... 
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RobsLuv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobsLuv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 7:41pm
What has happened, I think, is that you applied to extend your status when you either weren't eligible to be sponsored yet, or you didn't provide proof with the extension application that you were/are eligible to be sponsored as a common-law partner.  So they denied your extension and told you to leave Canada.  Unfortunately there is no way now to get new temporary status except by leaving Canada and coming back in again - BUT that has nothing whatsoever to do with your eligibility to apply outland for PR!!  The outland process does not have a residency requirement - you can be anywhere in the world that you find yourself (legal or not) and you're still eligible to apply outland for PR . . . so you do not have to be in Canada legally in order to apply outland.  However, you DO need to keep your temporary status valid if you want to remain in Canada while the outland PR ap is processing.  Your temporary status and your PR application are two different things - one does not confer status on the other.  They're telling you this because they don't want to lose track of you and the only motivation they can hold over you is to try to make you believe you can't apply for PR unless you get your status "regulated" - and that's just a lie!  They know that you being in Canada illegally will NOT affect the processing of an outland PR ap. 

That said, PLEASE, please be VERY careful leaving Canada and then trying to come back in asking for a Visitor Record all by yourself.  In fact, I strongly advise against it!  If you do, you're pretty much guaranteed to be turned back, and you could even be issued an exclusion order for having overstayed.  That would be very detrimental to your PR application because you would not be able to land - even with approved PR - until the exclusion was over with.  And because your PR approval has an expiration date, you could find yourself in a situation where, because of an exclusion, you get PR and then your COPR expires before you can land and you'd have to start all over again.  This is a trap - don't fall into it.  You need to read through the information at the US2Canada website, at the Visiting tab.  Follow the links to Visitor Record.  Your SPONSOR needs to be with you.  I was once told by an officer at our local CIC office to do the same thing - even though my temporary status was still valid and we intended to apply inland (not knowing any better).  I went to them asking how to apply to extend my status so that I could stay while the inland ap was processing - the officer did not tell me that all I had to do was include my status extension with my inland PR ap.  She, instead, told me to go to the border and "just ask for a Visitor Record".  When I did that, I got screamed at, called a criminal and a liar and told not to try to come back to Canada until my fiance/common-law partner and I had succeeded in getting married.  We were separated for months and the whole experience was traumatic.  That experience brought me here - more than 4 years ago - and I have learned so much since then about how they bull**** us when we just honestly try to find out what it is they expect from us.  I'm still here, trying to help minimize the damage they do to good people who just don't understand the process.  If you have any questions, PM or email me and I'll see what I can do to help.   


Edited by RobsLuv - 21 Jan 2011 at 8:10pm
3/2007-applied
1/2008-Refused
12/2008-ADR failed
1/2010-Appeal allowed
4/2010-In Process(Again)
5/2010-request FBI/meds
8/2010-FBI recd
11/30/10-APPROVED!
1/31/11-LANDED!
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 5:45am


Additional observations or clarifications:

There are ways through this without necessarily resolving the status issue, though not without some risk of being subject to deportation proceedings in the meantime.

Best to indeed get your status in order. And to do this you may indeed need to leave Canada. But, yes, once you leave you may indeed face difficulty obtaining re-entry into Canada. You have documented a desire to stay. To qualify for "visitor" status your intent must be to "visit" not stay.

That said, many times someone from a visa exempt country will be allowed into Canada with what is called "dual intent," that is, an intent to apply for permanent resident status and an intent to just visit while that application is in process. But that sometimes takes some convincing, and an important part of that is a clear showing that you are in a qualified relationship with a Canadian who has either already made the sponsorship application or who clearly affirms an intent to sponsor. And, indeed, it is best to be accompanied by the sponsoring partner when attempting to enter Canada this way.

That said, it is worth emphasizing that the fiancee relationship is not a qualified relationship for Canadian immigration purposes. A common-law relationship is a qualified relationship. Referring to a partner with whom one lives as a fiancee is almost sure to close the door (unless and until a qualified relationship is established) . . . an intent to enter into a marital relationship in the future implies there is currently not a level of commitment sufficient to be in a marital relationship. Just living together does not make two people common-law partners. Many, many people share homes, apartments, even bedrooms, without having the kind of commitment necessary to establish a common-law relationship (an in fact marriage as opposed to a marriage in law).

Going forward you need to keep this clear. A common-law couple can plan to legally marry in the future, but to be in a qualified relationship for immigration sponsorship purposes, they must currently be in a committed conjugal (marital or marital-like some say) relationship which, again, requires significantly more than sharing a bedroom for a full year. The plan to legally marry in the future is essentially irrelevant and in terms of addressing Canadian immigration and border authorities, actually best not mentioned unless specifically asked about.

Once the qualified common-law relationship is established, for sponsorship purposes it is almost as strong as a legal marriage, and in some ways is stronger since the couple have been living together for at least a full year, a rather strong indication that the relationship is genuine. However, given the way in which things are evaluated during an attempt to enter Canada at a POE, during which there is not necessarily an opportunity to even clearly make one's case let alone put proper proof forward, the common-law partner faces somewhat greater difficulty in convincing a CBSA officer to allow entry under so-called "dual intent." Regarding this I emphatically concur with Robsluv: you really need to be accompanied at the border by your partner, and your partner really needs to step forward during the attempted entry to affirm the relationship and a commitment to support you while in Canada and to provide a means for you to travel home if and when you are again ordered to leave Canada. Even then there are no guarantees. None at all.

Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Meesha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meesha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2011 at 5:05am
Hi!! Thanks for your info.. Yes, my fiancee' will definitely be with  me while crossing the border. What kind of proof do you think would be sufficient enough to prove we're a "real" couple? We have pictures, emails, xmas cards addressed to us both, joint bank accounts... do you think that would be enough? I swear it's like Immigration won't be happy until I give a kidney or have sex with my fiancee in front of them in order to prove we're serious! ( sorry, just a little frustrated )

Earlier, I just had another person from Immigration tell me that my fiancee' really isn't my common law partner even though we've lived together for over a year and a half, because I'm technically "out of status" and only the first six months I was here counts. So he won't be able to sponsor me outland  unless we get married before I leave, stay in the states for six months and then have him file a petition for me?!?!?!?!? 

I don't think I've ever been so confused in all my life. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2011 at 1:31am
Well, if you attempt to return to Canada accompanied by a "fiancee" that will do you very little good since that is not a qualified relationship which Canadian immigration recognizes. In fact, it will hurt your odds of being allowed entry.

Read the previous posts. Read information at the site Robsluv pointed you to.

Best way to avoid confusion is to get informed. Slow down, read for comprehension. Think about what has been said, by those here, by representatives of CIC, all of which is to be taken skeptically, to be evaluated by you critically, thoughtfully, but that is mostly about trying to understand what and why is true in what has been said, and why it might not apply to you, or how it does apply to you.

While not everything you say that "another person from Immigration" told you is necessarily correct (though it depends on the overall context and circumstances), an important part of it is, and that is that immigration is indeed likely to not consider a "fiancee" to be a common-law partner. I explained this to you in some detail in my previous post. I also explained in detail that merely living together does not establish the existence of a common-law relationship. Living together is a necessary part, but living together is not sufficient in itself to establish common-law.

Be aware, too, that your factual circumstances tend to ruffle CBSA and CIC feathers: you have violated Canadian immigration law. They tend to not like that.

Again, go to the site Robsluv pointed you to. Read the posts here again more slowly, trying to understand things and understand their significance.

And recognize that you are a foreign national in Canada, and you have been a foreign national out of status, which is comparable to what Americans call, in the U.S., an "illegal alien."

Edit to add:
Just in case I have not made it clear: to be in a common-law relationship, you must be (in effect) in a relationship that is, in fact, a relationship with commitments equal to those of a married couple. NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU HAVE LIVED TOGETHER. Thus, you would be PARTNERS, marital partners (marital in fact not law), just like a "spouse" is in a legal marriage. Not fiancees.





Edited by dpenabill - 24 Jan 2011 at 2:09pm
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2011 at 7:59pm
While looking through the sponsor's guide attendant another question, I came across the following in the guide:
Quote
Note:There is no provision for fiancé(e)s in Canada’s immigration legislation. If you are the fiancé(e) of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, you must marry before the immigration process takes place. Conjugal partners are not fiancé(e)s and are not fiancé-like (that is, intending to live together and begin a conjugal relationship).


While I think this glosses over things a bit, it illustrates the approach CIC takes when the relationship is with a "fiancé(e)" ... sometimes CIC can be overly simplistic. The use of certain words sometimes triggers a response beyond the scope of what the regs or law intends. Referring to one's partner as a fiancé(e) is, I think, one of these instances. Best to eliminate the term "fiancé(e)" from one's vocabulary when dealing with CBSA or CIC if one is a common-law partner relying, to any degree (be it in the sponsored PR application or an attempt to enter Canada accompanied by or to visit one's partner) on that as a qualified relationship.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobsLuv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 1:43pm
I agree - "fiance" does not qualify you to be sponsored for PR.  In fact, for some reason, it seems to be a word that really only aggravates them.  But they're not cooperating with you in regards to your common-law qualification (which is what happened to us, too, under similar circumstances at the border) - supposedly because you weren't in Canada with documented status during the co-habitation qualification period.  So that's not going to work as far as justification for entering because it's too hard for you to prove.  As I mentioned when we emailed, I think this an incorrect judgment on the part of the officer . . . the OP2 processing manual, in Section 5.35, recognizes that the definition of common-law is established by federal case law - not by Immigration Canada.  And it's unfair of CIC to deny the common-law qualification of a US/Canada couple based on the US partner not being in Canada with documented status when, most of the time, US citizens are not documented on entry to Canada.  The other point I made was that, if you had been living together in the US for a year, would Immigration Canada require that your partner produce evidence of having been legally documented in the US in order to "qualify" your common-law status?  Probably not - in fact, in some States I don't think they even recognize "common-law". 

Things will change when you're legally married - that's about the only time that they have nothing to argue with when it comes to whether or not you're at least eligible to be sponsored.  However, IMHO there's way too much discretion given to CIC officers to interpret the Act & Regulations.  They need some serious training and a lot more accountability.

Edited by RobsLuv - 05 Feb 2011 at 1:48pm
3/2007-applied
1/2008-Refused
12/2008-ADR failed
1/2010-Appeal allowed
4/2010-In Process(Again)
5/2010-request FBI/meds
8/2010-FBI recd
11/30/10-APPROVED!
1/31/11-LANDED!
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Meesha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meesha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2011 at 7:06am
Agreed completely... They DO need serious training. They need to go by the book and not their opinions or what kind of mood they're in that day.
As far as the word "fiance" goes... I guess I'll remove that from my vocabulary lmao! So when my BOYFRIEND comes to visit me in the states, should he just tell the person at the border he's coming to visit friends, or his girlfriend??? (God forbid they find out we're engaged..they might ban him for having the audacity to date an american lmfao! ) 
Application FINALLY sent out: July 21, 2011
Received 7/25
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