Inadmissibility #2 (Pls help us) |
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smalfoy
Junior Member Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:56am |
So here's the situation:
My husband (who is American) was charged with a misdemeanor 2 years ago when he was 18 for shoplifting. He did not receive jailtime, or probation, but was made to pay a fine. It is his only offense and he has not reoffended in any way since. We were concerned that this would make him inadmissible to be sponsored by me. (It has not made him inadmissible to cross the border. The guards are aware and even asked him about it, and he has been let through many times.) We contacted an immigration lawyer and we were told to either a) apply on Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds or B) get the record expunged (and also to hire an immigration lawyer). I do not think this is a case that would qualify as humanitarian and compassionate because he does not really have cause for undue hardship in his own country (the states). Like, he's not going to die if he stays there or anything (unless it's of a broken heart...lol). He IS eligible for expungement according to West Virginia law. And we definitely DON'T have the money for a lawyer. He is unemployed and I'm working a part time job, barely able to make ends meet. I then contacted the CIC to verify this. I was told that yes, he is inadmissible, and should I decide to proceed with my sponsorship of him that we should fill out and send in an application for rehabilitation. I tried to clarify with the officer several times on this ("So let me get this straight, he should apply for rehabilitation even though five years has not passed?" Officer: "Yes.") but I'm still really confused about it. The officer said he should, and then we should send in the receipt and a letter explaining about it with our application for sponsorship. The officer could not say if expungement would be able to help my husband's case. The documentation online for things like this is not at all clear. It says that if you have 2 or more summary convictions that you are considered inadmissible. It does not mention 1 conviction. (I'm guessing this would count as summary.) So my question is, what do you think we should do? Should we apply for rehabilitation? Expungement? Humanitarian and compassionate grounds? We have been together for 3 years, married for 3 months, and as I'm sure you know, it's terrible not being able to see the person you love except maybe at 6 month intervals if you're REALLY lucky. I really don't think I have it in me to wait anymore to start my life. Please advise us on this situation. |
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rbenoit
Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: Ottawa Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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CIC phone agents can be wrong.
Personally, I would probably submit the application. The shplifting might be seen as a misdemeanor since no jail time or probabtion was sentenced.
Have your spouse include a letter explaining in detail everything about the case.
It might not be as big a problem as it seems.
Let Immigration officer deal with it and they will make the determination.
You may be able to appeal the decision if they choose to refuse your applicaiton.
Cheers!!!
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babyboy
Junior Member Joined: 06 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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INDEED!!
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RobsLuv
Senior Member Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 745 |
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I don't agree. Any conviction makes an applicant inadmissible for permanent status. The variable is the "expungement" of the record. Normally when someone is criminally inadmissible, if five years (or sometimes ten, depending on the offence and how it would be punishable in Canada) has passed, they are eligible to apply for rehabilitated status. Once that piece is resolved they can apply for PR without having to endure a bunch of hassle - because it completely takes the inadmissibility determination out of the hands of the assessing officer. Without that, when an officer assessing a PR application is put in the position of having to make a determination about criminal inadmissibility, they will err on the side of caution and refuse (even if, ultimately, they're wrong) and they'll make no apology. Then you go to appeal, which is where the H&C comes in - to allow the appeal, even though the applicant may be inadmissible, due to compelling humanitarian and compassionate grounds. (I don't think there is a "Humanitarian and Compassionate" application you can file for a spouse - if I remember correctly, the instructions for the H&C application tell you that if you are considering applying on behalf of a spouse, you have to use the Spouse/Common-law application package.)
So, if he is eligible to have the offence expunged from his record, he should do that BEFORE you even think about submitting a PR application. IF that results in the offence disappearing from his FBI report, it would seem there'd be no need then to apply for rehabilitated status - but that should be confirmed with a qualified Canadian immigration attorney - NOT with CIC. It does no good at all just to say that he is eligible to have the record expunged . . . and I'm not sure they even know what to do with an expunged record. I was in the same situation with my son's arrest and mentioned that, and it only seemed to muddy the waters. It was like the officer either didn't believe me, or didn't know what to do with the information, but they will not try to help you out by engaging in a discussion with you about it. The rehabilitation process has the potential to take a lot of time, so my advice would be that the two of you get as much information as possible first about how to get his record expunged, and what the end result of that is as far as his FBI (and also State) clearances and don't involve Immigration Canada until you know exactly where you stand. In our case, because we went ahead without understanding what we were getting into, things really went off the rails and it's been years without resolution for us over something that never should have been an issue since my son never intended to come to Canada in the first place. Anyway, correct knowledge is power and it's vitally important to have at least some semblance of that when you're dealing with CIC. Edited by RobsLuv - 21 Oct 2010 at 3:47pm |
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3/2007-applied
1/2008-Refused 12/2008-ADR failed 1/2010-Appeal allowed 4/2010-In Process(Again) 5/2010-request FBI/meds 8/2010-FBI recd 11/30/10-APPROVED! 1/31/11-LANDED! |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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Another clarification: some states classify retail theft (shoplifting) of small amounts different from an ordinary theft based on amount. The precise nature of the criminal offence in the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred is critical and only a lawyer who can review the precise convicting record from the court can offer a reliable evaluation of it.
Not all criminal convictions result in inadmissibility. A single conviction for an offence which is definitely a "summary" offence in Canada does not result in criminal inadmissibility. However, the vast majority of relatively "minor" offences for which a criminal record is even created in the States are offences which in Canada may be prosecuted as either a summary offence or an indictable offence, and all such offences are treated by CIC as indictable. In many States, what would be an infraction in some are formally classified as misdemeanors, which are indeed criminal offences but they are the sorts of misdemeanors for which a summons or citation only is usually involved, there is no arrest, no NCIC record of conviction; these usually translate into a "summary" offence is committed in Canada and, again, a single conviction for such offences does not render one inadmissible. Some states, oddly enough, classify a great many infractions as misdemeanors, but treat them as infractions -- for example, in some states technically mere speeding is classified as a Class B (or similar designation) misdemeanor, technically punishable by up to six months (or some other time period) of incarceration, but procedurally the courts are bound by what is called a "bail schedule" and cannot impose jail, cannot enter a misdemeanor conviction. One can, of course, have been convicted of speeding many times in life and those, alone, would not constitute a criminal conviction for which one would be inadmissible. In other words, given the vast variations in State laws, there is a myriad of possibilities. Bottom line, again, though, for the vast majority of state crimes for which a person is "arrested" and the record thereof entered into NCIC, those offences (with some exceptions I believe) usually could be prosecuted as either summary or indictable offences in Canada, and thus are treated by CIC as indictable offences resulting in inadmissibility. As for a retail theft charge: unfortunately, while I am not sure, I believe the charge in most states is simply classified as a theft, which even if for a small amount would constitute a theft of less than (I forget the precise sum) which, again, I believe, may be charged as EITHER a summary or indictable offence. How it would probably be charged does not matter, rather, since it is an offence which may be charged as either a summary or indictable offence, for immigration purposes it is treated as an indictable offence, thus triggering inadmissibility and requiring five years to pass before eligibility for rehab status. That is, does not matter that it is an offence which could be or even most likely would be charged as a summary offence, if the statutory provision allows for it be prosecuted as an indictable offence, CIC treats it as an indictable offence. Expungement should work. It is worth the cost of a lawyer to get this done. If one cannot now afford it, that is something to work toward. Other alternative is to apply, suffer the refusal, and appeal with an argument based on H&C. A single minor offence of this sort, with some time past before it comes up before the Minister or the Board, which is an offence for which, in Canada, the disposition probably would have allowed a process ending with no conviction at all, probably has a very good chance of being overlooked based on H&C, depending of course on the whole application generally -- in contrast, a conviction for a single DUI faces a much, much more difficult process if the five years since has not elapsed. As always, those who are poor are at a great disadvantage. No easy way around this. Best way around it is find a job and to be a very very good worker, and to make some money to finance the processes involved. Easier said than done, sorry. For those who are motivated, though, there are various avenues toward greatly improving their odds of finding work even in a very stressed economy -- lots of advice and info out there about how to go about this. Demands an extra-ordinary effort, of course, perhaps a lot of work for little or no return up front, but that may be the best there is. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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smalfoy
Junior Member Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Thanks to everyone for the extremely informative answers.
When I called the CIC officer and asked if expungement may help earlier today, he told me that I would have to indicate that the record was expunged in our application. Wouldn't this be treated the same as not having been expunged at all if that's the case?
What exactly IS expungement? To my understanding it's just trying to hide what you've done, in which case you probably can't from an immigration official because you really shouldn't lie about these things. Could anyone clarify for me? |
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sami55
Senior Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: hidden Status: Offline Points: 594 |
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No matter WHICHEVER COURSE OF ACTION YOU CHOOSE from the above options. you WILL have to provide an explanation of the incident why it happened, the circumstances surrounding it, when and where it happened, was alcohol a contributory factor. etc.... and if you do not do so THEN they will ask you about it, in which event it WILL delay your case. Not all offences make the person inadmissible. the manner in which it was disposed of is very crucial in determining inadmissibility or otherwise. was he convicted in a juvenile court (JUST over 18 ?) etc you must also present a strong compelling case in YOUR favour to show that you are rehabilitated, by way of a good guy image, here include all things like how you have taken positive steps forward to a rehabilitated life style.(include even things like any courses attended. etc) see if this helps http://www.cic.gc.ca/english//information/applications/guides/5312E2.asp#tphp idtphp |
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dpenabill
Top Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6407 |
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I disagree with sami55.
Yes, you would be obliged to disclose, in the application, the charge, even if it has been expunged; but date, place, basic facts (retainl theft for xx amount in such n such location), place and name of court and the disposition in court, details of subsequent expungement, should suffice; that is, the more or less formal information, should be all you need to include in the "explain" part of your disclosure. But, under most State's expungement laws, an expungement effectively vacates the conviction, and so there is no conviction. CIC will not ignore it, it can still factor into their background assessment, but since there is no conviction, it alone should not be a problem. That said, what constitutes "expungement" varies from state to state. Many states do not allow convictions to be expunged in the sense of vacating the original conviction. You need to talk to a lawyer in the jurisdiction as to what an expungement means there and what makes someone eligible for an expungement. If it means the conviction is vacated, as if it never happened, that would make you good to go. But, again, the details as to what sort of relief from a conviction is available varies greatly from state to state, and it is best to talk to a lawyer in the state where it happened to learn more. It is not a matter of "hiding" something. It is a matter of what is in the formal, official record. A record of conviction has consequences. A record of arrest has consequences. In some states one can have the arrest expunged (if the circumstances support that). That is not available in most states to a person who has been convicted, but in some states the conviction can be expunged. So the record of arrest remains, but the disposition is a vacated conviction (in effect, then, no conviction). The formal consequences of a vacated conviction are far less onerous than a record of conviction. Thus, an expungement does not mean you were innocent, it means that justice allows you to move forward in life without the burden of a criminal conviction. But a local defense lawyer can explain best what is involved in a particular state. |
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Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.
BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration |
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sami55
Senior Member Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: hidden Status: Offline Points: 594 |
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good luck
hope it works out for you |
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matthewc
Average Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Hamilton, ON Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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I don't have anything to add to dpnabill's good advice, but I do want to add this: When you call the CIC call centre, you are talking to a call centre agent, NOT an immigration officer, and definitely not a lawyer. It's very important not to take what they tell you at face value without double checking it. Unfortunately, they sometimes give out incorrect / misleading information, and possible criminal inadmissibility isn't something to take lightly. |
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