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CBSA Exit-Entry tracking

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akella View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 10:36am
Interesting article on something that is relevant for many people here

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/poor-data-could-hinder-key-feature-of-perimeter-security-pact-border-agency/article4903320/

Poor data could hinder key feature of perimeter security pact: border agency

Jim Bronskill

OTTAWA — The Canadian Press

Published

Canadian officials worry that the poor quality of information routinely collected from airline passengers could hamper a key feature of the perimeter security deal with the United States.

An internal Canada Border Services Agency briefing note warns the lack of reliable data might be an obstacle to compiling a comprehensive record of almost everyone who enters and leaves the two countries.

The entry-exit tracking system, to be phased in over the next two years, is a crucial feature of the perimeter security pact unfurled with much fanfare a year ago.

The deal is intended to help smooth the passage of travellers and cargo across the Canada-U.S. border while beefing up continental security.

The tracking system involves exchanging entry information collected from people at the land border — so that data on entry to one country would serve as a record of exit from the other.

In addition, Canada plans to collect information on people exiting by air — something the United States already does — by requiring airlines to submit passenger manifest data for outbound international flights.



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EasyRider View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EasyRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 11:10am
Akella, thank you for posting that.

Originally posted by akella akella wrote:

In addition, Canada plans to collect information on people exiting by air — something the United States already does — by requiring airlines to submit passenger manifest data for outbound international flights.

But the notion that Canada doesn't collect information on people exiting by air or its govt doesn't have access to it is b.s. There's both direct and indirect evidence of this.

1) I lived at some point with a friend (at the same house) who came to Canada on a visitor visa and has applied for extension of status. Later he decided to leave country for good before receiving decision. So, after he left I got letter from CIC (CPC-Vegreville-- inland processing) and opened it on his behalf. The letter clearly stated: "Your application for extension was refused because you left Canada". I remember thinking that it was a funny letter, because addressed to person who will never read it. What does it tell us? CIC at least can verify who left the country, at it's a record of exit (he left by airplane). There's CBSA consent in extension application also.

2) Service Canada is also recording exits to fight EI fraud (so you won't party in Caribbean on your EI money for several months instead of looking for job in Canada, or will be prosecuted for it). I've first heard of it from someone who used to work for Service Canada, but recently I've found this post from someone who also used to work there and is answering questions on some forum now. I'm not sure CBSA consent is required when applying for EI, but likely so in some form.

Quote There is no scrutiny from CBSA. Your departure/arrival will be recorded and the information will be shared with Service Canada at a later date. 

You don't get exempted if you go on vacation. There's a one week exemption but only if you are visiting an ill or dying direct relative.


So, I'm not sure what they say is correct, and also CIC seems already to be able to identify those who left/stay out of country for a long time.
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akella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 12:20pm
Another interesting article close to this topic (albeit from 2005 and focused on privacy aspects primarily) - "What happens when you book an airline ticket" by Colin J. Bennett

http://www.colinbennett.ca/Recent%20publications/What_happens_when_you_book_an-airline_ticket.pdf
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akella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by EasyRider EasyRider wrote:

But the notion that Canada doesn't collect information on people exiting by air or its govt doesn't have access to it is b.s. There's both direct and indirect evidence of this.

Am not sure what else is going there... I just re-read CIC citizenship app 11-2012 - consent language specifically authorizes CIC to "collect the history of... entries into Canada from CBSA". Even if CBSA or other agency have more (e.g. exits indicators) - they don't necessarily share unless data sharing agreement is in place and explicit consent provided.

Edited by akella - 05 Nov 2012 at 12:17pm
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 4:18pm
Observations:

That which lies in-between the two linked sources (recent article and the 2005 article), the flaws and gaps and inaccuracies in data-gathering on one hand, and the extensive, intrusive capturing of personal information on many levels on the other hand, illuminates the difference between accessing data sources to identify false, misleading, or otherwise inaccurate information, versus any attempt to create a comprehensive, exhaustive record for particular individuals.

There are, as has been oft discussed, other reasons why no database is relied upon to represent a complete and accurate accounting of an individual's international travel, the biggest reason being rooted in the capacity of those with mal-intent to manipulate or deceive. But, between data-gathering flaws on one hand, and the massive amount of personal information actually collected from individuals on the other, loom the practical and technological difficulties of building an airtight, foolproof system to maintain personal border-crossing histories that are reliably accurate, absolutely complete, and yet sufficiently protected from serious breaches of privacy rights.

A system which captures almost every cross-border event, but not every-single event, falls short and is unreliable. And, even that system can be, most likely would be, vulnerable to serious breaches of personal privacy rights unless access is strictly limited, very strictly limited.

So, let's get the big one out of the way: we have no idea to what extent CSIS and the American FBI and CIA (and other security/intelligence agencies in the U.S.) have access to widespread, highly detailed, information about travel to and from North America, or between the U.S. and Canada. We can surmise that they have massive resources and extensive capacity to do data-mining on many, many levels. For the vast majority of us, this is not an issue. We are not on their radar. We are not perceived to be any sort of security concern. No one is tracking our movements in particular.

But they could be. They might be. For some of us, there may be perceived reasons, or even substantial reasons, why they would be. For those who fall into this (probably quite small) group, there should be no surprise: an application for citizenship is going to get tangled up some along the way. And this is likely to be true whether or not there are residency concerns.   

The other side of this coin has to do with statements like:
Quote the notion that Canada doesn't collect information on people exiting by air or its govt doesn't have access to it is b.s.

I doubt anyone is suggesting that "Canada" is not collecting vast amounts of personal information including in particular such information as exits and entries into Canada.

But no modern government in the West, or otherwise industrialized country, is a monolithic entity. There is no central brain (or database) storing all that is known by the "government."

So, such an obversation is largely, if not entirely, irrelevant to how residency is or could be assessed in the processing of an application for Canadian citizenship.

The practical questions have to do with what information is being captured by who, and how that information is stored, updated, and accessed, including related questions such as who has access and what are the conditions of access, including information-sharing protocols (which akella alludes to, including such considerations as information sharing agreements and consent, as well as related privacy protections).

An aspect of the practical questions regarding information capturing, is that many of the particulars, including both the means and the content of information captured by this or that government agency, are deliberately NOT transparent but protected, largely secret procedures. Law-enforcement, in particular, including national security agencies, does not want the public to know the details about the what, when, where, how, or so on, of their intelligence/information gathering.

Suffice it to say: here or there, in this or that government agency, and in all of them combined, sure, anyone who spends any time at all inside Canada probably has had all sorts of detailed information about them gethered and stored. So, for any given PR there is, almost certainly, a huge amount of information about them somewhere in government databases.

CIC does not have easy access to a lot of that. For good reason. This has a lot to do with the protection of individual privacy. But, generally, it is rooted in limited access related to a need-to-know hierarchy which protects not just personal information but government processes and government information generally.

This leads to CIC access and use of information captured and stored by other govt agencies.

CIC access & use of information captured & stored by other govt agencies


The CBSA travel history is a prime example. One might say that there is a particular database maintained by CBSA in which traveler entries into Canada are recorded. But, it is more likely that the database is significantly more robust, more extensive than that. Rather, what is likely is that among designed queries for accessing a much broader, more extensive CBSA database, one query is specifically designed to generate a report indicating a particular individual's entries into Canada. It may or not be complete, because the capturing of the underlying information (all entries into Canada) may or may not be complete. The trend is toward making the capture of this information more complete, but there are still occasions in which this information is not captured and this is sometimes true even if the individual is not deliberately attempting to evade the capture of a particular entry. Since it is probably impossible to maintain open-borders and be certain no one is evading the capture of every time they cross the border, such data will always fall short of being absolutely complete . . . and thus there is little prospect that CIC will ever totally rely upon this information to be fully complete.

I suspect that CSIS, RCMP, and the U.S. FBI, have the capacity to either make a more expansive query into the CBSA database, or that in specified conditions, a referral or inquiry can be formally made which will generate a far more expansive record regarding a specifically targeted individual. I am quite certain, as well, that CIC too can make a formal request for more expansive, detailed information, but I think they are limited in this, and probably have to justify the request, as in specify grounds which will meet prescribed restrictions.

What they can obtain may be expanded some by consent. So a request for consent (allowing direct access) is now part of the citizenship application and (it appears) the most recent version of the RQ form.

I would bet that similarly CIC can request investigations or inquiries from other government agencies in specific cases, based on prescribed criteria which will justify access for that individual in that case.

Again, for most of us, the vast majority of us, this will be irrelevant. We are not under investigation. (Of course I do not really know, but . . . well, I think this is fairly obvious if one works their way through the relevant considerations, balances the equation, and checks the math, so to say).

Bottom-line: while to a large extent the CBSA report is used to corroborate an applicant's residency declarations, it does not absolutely confirm an individual's declaration of absences, so its primary purpose is to expose inconsistencies, inaccuracies, or omissions. It is not used to determine how many days an applicant was absent or present. It is used to compare with what the applicant declared and identify if the CBSA record indicates any absence which the applicant failed to disclose.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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