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Citizen Citizen accompanying PR (730 rule..?)

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coolspy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 5:26pm
OPTION 1. Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada

You may count each day that you accompanied a Canadian citizen outside Canada provided that the person you accompanied is your
    * spouse (canadaian Spouse accompanying a PR-Student)
Evidence that you are accompanying a Canadian citizen
You must provide supporting documents to prove that:
    * The person you are accompanying (canadaian Spouse accompanying a PR-Student) is a Canadian citizen

Supporting documents may include:
    * marriage licence
    * child’s birth certificate (Canadian)

Supporting documents may include:
    * passports or other travel documents (canadaian Spouse accompanying a PR-Student)

*******************************************************************************************************************
:::My questions are does the PR-student spouse retains his/her status

(1) If the Canadian citizen is accompanying the PR...?

(2) What if the Canadian Citizen also a student outside the country and PR- is also a student and both living together in same place on separate student visas...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackpearl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 5:52pm
I believe as long as you are living together under same roof with a Canadian spouse abroad, you can keep your PR. There is no requirement that says that the Canadian spouse has to be working abroad.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 6:29pm
Thanks Black Pearl for the reply.

The wording is very 'stringent'. It always says Permanent Resident accompanying a Canadian Citizen not 'CC' accompanying a 'PR'.

Oh well may be i am too critical on looking at the words in the sentence.

Immigration laws wordings are sometimes complex!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 10:34pm
Hi

Originally posted by coolspy coolspy wrote:

Thanks Black Pearl for the reply.

The wording is very 'stringent'. It always says Permanent Resident accompanying a Canadian Citizen not 'CC' accompanying a 'PR'.

Oh well may be i am too critical on looking at the words in the sentence.

Immigration laws wordings are sometimes complex!!!!!


Well you should note there has already been 1 Federal Court ruling where the Person was sponsored by his CC spouse, he "landed" and then returned to his home country where he continued with his employer. His spouse then accompanied him. He applied for TD to return to Canada and was refused based on not having 2 years residency in Canada. The Federal Court ruled that the PR was not accompanying his spouse, but it was her that was accompanying him and dismissed the application.

PMM
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coolspy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 11:25pm
Thanks PMM.

Then only Permanent Resident accompanying a Canadian Citizenwill be able to meet the residency obligation.

I wish both scenarios would make the PR to meet the residency obligation.

Edited by coolspy - 04 Mar 2010 at 11:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2010 at 11:08pm
Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada
Thanks "dpenabill for the relevant documents:
It clearly answers the questions about Canadian accompanying PR?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf
"
In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose. In other words, under A28(2)(a)(ii) and R61(4), as long as a permanent resident is accompanying a Canadian citizen, the intent and purpose of their absences are not relevant as the residency obligation is met."

Edited by coolspy - 21 Mar 2010 at 3:28pm
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dpenabill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 2:15am
Right, for a PR whose spouse is a citizen: "Accompanying" means "ordinarily residing with" and the purpose for their being abroad does not factor into it.

The applicable regulation, 61(4) specifically states:
Quote . . . a permanent resident is accompanying outside Canada a Canadian citizen or another permanent resident — who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent — on each day that the permanent resident is ordinarily residing with the Canadian citizen or the other permanent resident.


And the operational manual clarifies that in so far as a PR accompanying a Canadian citizen is concerned, it is simply not necessary to determine for who is accompanying whom.

I am not familiar with the case to which pmm refers, but there is clearly something else at play in that decision. Does not appear to be relevant here.

All this said, many of the cases seem to turn on the credibility of the evidence of actually living together abroad; I am not sure how these cases arise, but a common thread in many of them seems to involve partners in circumstances casting doubt on the claim they were living together.
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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coolspy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010 at 3:27pm
Thanks again dpenabill for the Links and clarification. However, not sure how a PR can prove that he is actually 'living together'. Any specific documents ...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpenabill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2010 at 1:32am
I suppose therein lies the trap. But any PR living abroad should antipate this (assuming they intend to retain residency in Canada, with a long term agenda to settle permanently in Canada), and gather ongoing evidence to show how they are in fact meeting the residency requirement.

The usual evidence, I'd guess: mail to each at same address, financial and utility accounts reflecting both names at the same address, statutory declarations if necessary. Tax returns. And so on.

A lot may depend on how the issue arises.

I should emphasize that I do not know the practical dimensions of residency issues and it is hard to guess who might really know such things beyond CBSA and CIC employees who deal directly with these things . . . even immigration lawyers are not likely to be engaged in a sufficient number of such cases to get much of a glimpse beyond the particulars of individual cases, and almost certainly immigration consultants are not likely to be well acquainted with how these things play out in practice beyond isolated and anecdotal reports.

But, again, recognizing that (as in so many immigration cases) a lot probably depends on all the particular circumstances in the individual case, how the issue arises perhaps looms as large a factor as any in the equation beyond simply the length of time the PR is physically out of Canada.

For example, I suspect those who have allowed their PR card to expire, and who are abroad and are seeking a Travel Document authorizing travel to Canada, face the higher hurdles. And of course the longer one has been away from Canada, the greater the scrutiny I suspect (and I do mean "suspect" which is akin to but not as strong as even an "educated guess," a brain-storming kind of assessment). This is with the recognition that other factors will play a role, favorably or unfavorably, some simply going to the degree of scrutiny that is likely, some going to the core issues.

A PR with solid proof of meeting the residency requirement has nothing to worry about. A PR who can prove compliance poses no issues of a discretionary nature (other than the discretion inherent in the fact finding function, which is really very limited in any case in which the PR has good objective evidence).
Bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does, or When in doubt, follow the instructions. Otherwise, follow the instructions.



BTW: Not an expert, not a Can. lawyer, never worked in immigration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coolspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 5:46pm
Thanks dpenabill.

I totally agree as long as the PR has honest interest and intention to make Canada as home this rule (accompanying Canadian Citizen) gives the maximum flexibility.
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